Announcing NBCUniversal Checkout

Phillip: [00:00:00.06] Hello and welcome to Future Commerce, the podcast about cutting edge and next generation commerce. We've had quite a pre show. Welcome. I'm Phillip.

Brian: [00:00:08.94] And I'm Brian.

Phillip: [00:00:10.20] And we have with us now a recurring guest on the show, Mr. Evan Moore from NBC Universal. Welcome to the show again.

Brian: [00:00:18.93] Welcome.

Evan: [00:00:19.65] Thank you, guys. So happy to be here.

Phillip: [00:00:22.02] Yeah, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that you are the VP of Content and eCommerce at a media company called NBC Universal. And gosh, it's been a little while since we had you on the show. And I know that you've got some stuff that, some exciting stuff to talk about here today. But I thought maybe we could just take a second and check in on your personal life. How are things?

Evan: [00:00:43.32] Things are doing as well as I can. I'm extremely grateful for where I'm at in the world, considering everything that's going on. So I can't complain for certain.

Phillip: [00:00:53.16] Yeah, you were telling me that you're joining a few other folks in the New York area and possibly migrating out and making a big move. And sounds like a lot of life change happening in a lot of people's lives right now. Interesting time.

Evan: [00:01:11.49] Yeah. It's an interesting time and everybody's got to make their moves to put themselves in the best place to weather the storm, but really, really happy to be a part of NBC Universal family in the midst of this. I'll tell you that.

Phillip: [00:01:24.87] Yeah. I couldn't imagine. I mean, there's so many good things happening there. The last time we had you on the show, we were talking about the the sort of foray into eCommerce, at least in the dipping of the toe in the proverbial water in eCommerce. Catch us up a little bit on your role at NBC Universal and sort of what your role is there and what brought you to this point, in just a few seconds to catch everybody up on the conversation, because I really want to focus on your big announcement today and the new cool stuff you guys have been working on.

Evan: [00:02:05.82] Sure. Sure. So to kind of give you a little bit on my back story, I've been working in the digital product space for a little bit more than a decade at a number of different places, kind of living at the intersection between content and commerce. With my two previous experiences before joining NBC Universal, being first at Ticketmaster, running their commerce platform, and then after that at Goop, which is Gwyneth Paltrow's lifestyle, content, commerce, juggernaut. And really it was my experience that those two places that kind of informed where I wanted to take my career going forward. And that is really exploring how you can use highly contextual commerce experiences to drive a massively successful content commerce place. And that's kind of what I joined NBC Universal to do, which is to take a lot of those learnings and apply them at scale across the NBC portfolio of brands. And my boss, Josh Feldman, saw my experience and saw something compelling there and brought me on board to head up his content and commerce team, which is part of the Commercial Innovation Group within NBC Universal ad sales. And so my mission here with that team is really to create commerce opportunities for NBC Universal brand partners through the power of NBC Universal content storytelling and across all of our channels, across the entire portfolio to all of our different audiences. And the form that took last year was a site that we launched called Shop with Golf. It was a content and commerce site focused on the lifestyle space around golf. So kind of almost like a Goop for golf, if you will. And it was a really interesting  experience. We worked with several a few dozen different small golf retailers and some larger retailers and published really compelling and interesting content, including our own original series called Golf Beast, which was like a golf fashion show starring Eric Anders Lange. That was really, really amazing and successful. And we took some learnings from that and have now pivoted our strategy going forward into the next year into one that's really focused not just on a particular vertical like golf, but really on the entire portfolio of properties and audiences that NBC Universal has at its disposal. And so that's really what I'm excited about. And we'll be talking about a little bit in terms of what we're launching, what I'm excited about pursuing going to Q4 and then really looking forward to see what we can do with it next year.

Phillip: [00:04:37.32] I mean, I was trying to... I was going to set up a really cute joke about Peacock, but I can't seem to work it in, so I guess I won't. {laughter} So letting the cat out of the bag. What is NBC Universal Checkout? That is that is effectively a product that you guys have created and developed. I saw a press release around SYFY's Wire After Dark and some of the brand partners that were featured there. Tell us a little bit about specifically what the product is and how you're bringing content commerce closer together.

Evan: [00:05:14.67] Absolutely. So NBC Universal Checkout is actually the commerce engine for NBC Universal's one platform. And at its core, what it is really is an embeddable universal shopping cart that lets us take any piece of Web content, whether it's a text based article or a page, a static page or even a video, and turn it into a completely natively shopping experience. And what that means is that within the NBC property, whenever a viewer encounters a product, they can click on that product to see more information about it, add it to a shopping cart, pay, and check out all without leaving the NBCU site, without having to even navigate away from that page. And in the case of video, without even having to interrupt the video that they were viewing. Meanwhile, what we're actually doing is driving sales, real orders for our retail and consumer good brand partners that have partnered with us for that content experience. So it's really our way of driving transaction as close to the moment of inspiration as we can across our entire set of audiences and properties within the portfolio.

Brian: [00:06:16.87] Whoa, not even interrupting the video you're watching? Talk to me about how that works.

Evan: [00:06:22.07] Yeah, it's something it's a user experience that we're currently experimenting with on the Web. And we'll actually be putting into play with SYFY After Dark. So I definitely encourage you to watch the show on Linear and then check out the videos that we distribute through SYFY.com as well. And I'm kind of the first person to say that shoppable video is something that has been tried a lot of times and we haven't quite found the secret sauce for it. But I think we've really moved the needle on being able to provide an experience that is non interruptive to the content itself, but still allows you to kind of view enough information about the product to move down the checkout funnel to where it's as close to a real eCommerce experience as you can get. So really, what we think we've done here is taken it from being a zero sum experience where the user has to choose either to engage with the content or go down the checkout funnel, which has always been kind of the Achilles heel for content and commerce. You always feel like you're stealing from the pocket of one part of your business to put money into the other part of your business.

Brian: [00:07:25.39] That's really, really interesting. I think there's a ton of opportunity. Phillip and I have talked about this before on the show, a little bit with you last time, but even before that. Just the idea that, like as we're watching a show that we really like, I think last time we referred to 30 Rock, it would be so incredible to be able to just be like, oh, I want my cheesy puffs...

Phillip: [00:07:49.90] Cheesy blasters.

Brian: [00:07:53.65] Cheesy blasters.

Phillip: [00:07:53.65] And by the way, I need a meat cat reference before the show is over. But honestly, why did it take 20 years to get here? Is the question I'd ask. And really, Evan, it lives and dies on the products being native to the audience and the content.

Evan: [00:08:13.60] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:08:13.60] Right? Like it has to make sense in context, otherwise it's not value added. So maybe you could talk a little bit about how you choose that and how you're approaching those brand partnerships, at least with this SYFY Wire After Dark approach and then maybe give us an example of how you might approach this for different properties.

Evan: [00:08:38.11] That's a great question. Yeah. And you're totally hitting the nail on the head in that the context is kind of the key part of it. Right? And I think there's two different ways in which you can create that context, one of which is kind of that Holy Grail, mythical use case that we've all been imagining, which is that you're watching an episode of Friends, I think is the one that always gets talked about. And you're able to buy Jennifer Aniston's sweater, which has been talked about for years. And then the other kind of context angle is where the content itself is created with the knowledge that it can be made shoppable. Right? And that the products that are featured in the show or with the characters that are in the show can be those that you would then be able to buy. And when you have that capability, it completely changes how you actually produce the content itself. And so we'll see how this bears out. But right now, with SYFY After Dark, what we're really betting on is kind of that second tactic where we've actually created a piece of content that was going to be created anyway. They were looking to be able to talk about these great tentpole franchises that are coming out this summer. Summer is always a huge time for fandom and for SYFY's audience, with the comic book conventions that are going on, with all of the new franchises that usually put out new shows or release new books and things like that. And it just seemed like a great opportunity to align that with a lot of the retailers that we were already talking about bringing into the fold. And so really the magic there is to find that great alignment between a retailer who has an amazing product catalog and then a property within our portfolio that's looking to create a piece of content that aligns well with that one catalog or multiple catalogs from different retailers. So we've actually been having conversations with our network brand partners like SYFY, like Telemundo, like other parts of the portfolio. We've been having conversations with them for a long time trying to find those opportunities of alignment and serendipity where we can start to create extremely organic, shoppable moments within genuinely entertaining and valuable consumer viewing experiences.

Brian: [00:10:45.76] So to me, it sounds like retailers and brands are going to be able to actually collaborate in the process of creating the content and art. Like that's a kind of a brand's dream, really. Like to be involved in the actual process of the art creation, the content creation and creating sort of that native experience that, like you said, is sort of the Holy Grail. So cool.

Phillip: [00:11:14.20] Brian, unfortunately for us, I have to now be the person who pushes the glasses back on the bridge of my nose, like, "Well, actually..." Because that one episode of the X Files where they played with the camera in the car and showed off the rear view in front view camera. That was really terrible. And that's my only experience with native advertising. Give me an example of, like, how it can be done powerfully and in a way that sort of benefits the viewing experience maybe, Evan? Because I can see how it would be bad. There are ways you could do this in not a great way. And we've seen examples in the past. I'm sure that you could tell me some of the ways that it'll be well executed and well thought out in the way that you're approaching it.

Evan: [00:12:04.51] Sure, totally. I think with SYFY After Dark, we're exploring a couple of areas where maybe there's low hanging fruit in that regard. One is by serving in the role of a tastemaker. So especially within the world of fandom, there are new trade paperbacks coming out all the time. There's a thousand new properties that seem to be launched every single year here. And what the SYFY team is so amazing at is really bringing that curatorial eye into play and actually making recommendations to their audience that their audience knows that they can trust. And, you know, that's a pretty tried and true space where content commerce has really succeeded in the past, is serving in that role of the tastemaker or the curator. And then in the other side of things, it's providing a different kind of idea for somebody about how they might be able to express their fandom. So when we're talking about some of the apparel items we're featuring in SYFY After Dark, I don't think anybody would have thought to look out for a Wonder Woman 1984 licensed set of sunglasses from her goodr Sunglasses. But they're actually really awesome looking and are something that I personally am considering getting. And I never would have been exposed to that or known that that was out there if it wasn't actually highlighted as part of the show. So I think that the content itself, by the way, the show is hilarious. I have already seen a copy of it and laughed out loud multiple times throughout watching it. And it seems magically particularly targeted towards my sense of humor, which is great. But then each of the segments was completely organic in how the products were featured and talked about and didn't seem to detract or pull away from that. Another great example is, is what the Today Show does on a regular basis, both with shoppable TV, which is the way in which we can actually leverage our linear audience and drive into a second screen shopping experience on their mobile phones, but also in terms of the content that they're publishing every day to Today.com/shop, which is kind of published under a much more traditional affiliate based content commerce model. People look towards the Today Show as an authority on a number of different subjects, whether it's how to get a good deal through Jill's Steals and Deals or how to solve a problem in the home. And the Today Show can serve that role as an authority while still then driving a high volume of commerce through their content as a result. So I think those are a couple of examples in some of the lower hanging fruit in which we're looking to actually create shoppable content. But getting back to your earlier example, there is definitely the second case of let's take a piece of content, a narrative piece of content to understand how can you make that shoppable? And I do think that that's another interesting area to explore. But that's probably not what our first foot forward is going to be.

Brian: [00:14:40.44] And so the answer your push the glasses up the nose question, Phillip. I think the answer is you have to understand your audience. Understand the content that you're creating and understand where you fit into that picture. And that's something that retailers are going to have to do as they sort of engage in the ultimate discovery platform, as Evan just sort of put it. This is the opportunity for consumers to be able to try to see things in action that they would never have thought to see in action and and find new products and have NBC sort of play that role of tastemaker. But again, I think that you can do this poorly. It's going to come down to execution and understanding what it is that you're doing. And yeah, I think that...you're right.

Phillip: [00:15:27.11] And I recognize that. I see that. I mean, in some cases, like very few are positioned in the way that NBCU is. Let's just face it, probably millions of product purchase decisions are being made every day anyhow.

Evan: [00:15:44.62] Exactly.

Phillip: [00:15:44.62] And through the content properties. Right? We said in the last episode, when Evan was on, my kids would would kill to be able to buy Minions stuff while watching the new Minions movie. And it just seems like a natural extension. And that feels very value added, especially if there's some exclusivity tied to it, some personalization. I'm curious, Evan, what the future looks like outside of just the video or the streaming experience and how, like you said, you have this headless platform... Oh, I just worked in an SEO word. Nice. You have a headless eCommerce platform. What is that? What are you capable of doing with that that is outside of just the I'm watching something in situ and now purchasing something?

Evan: [00:16:32.90] Yeah. I mean, the platform itself gives us the ability to try out a thousand different ways in which we can integrate a commerce experience into our content environment. And with NBC's portfolio, we have so many different audiences and then properties we're putting in front of that audience that lend themselves to trying out different tactics. So you know what we might do in the context of, for example, and I'm throwing out some properties who we have no plans necessarily to work with yet. But just as an example, if we could do something with NBC Sports, it would be completely different from what we would try to do with the Today Show or with SYFY or with E!. And in some of those contexts, something more traditional, like a shopping gift guide might make sense in the context of like E! or The Today Show, whereas with NBC Sports, it might be something that's much more fan related. Or maybe it's more focused towards how to buy gifts for a person that's of a certain sports fan. And as Brian was kind of alluding to, it's really just finding that alignment between the products, the audience, and the property itself, the actual content property itself. And so the platform that we've built is so flexible, but it lets us kind of just build around the content, the checkout funnel itself. We can plug into the checkout funnel from anywhere we want to. And then retailers can come in regardless of whatever eCommerce platform they're on. We're interoperable across all of their platforms and we really just serve as this universal eCommerce adapter for our partners and for our experiences.

Phillip: [00:18:06.33] That was my next question is functionally, who becomes the merchant of record and how do you become a retailer as a media brand in 2020?

Evan: [00:18:19.32] Sure. So I'll say this. We're definitely not positioning ourselves as a retailer. Instead, we like to look at ourselves as a channel for our retail partners. As a result of taking the payment from the consumer, we are the merchant of record and are facilitating sale as a retail marketplace. But at the end of the day, all of our orders are fulfilled by our retail partners who come into our our marketplace through a back end integration, a process that's extremely easy and actually in many cases is driven by off the shelf plug ins for platforms like Shopify and Magento, for example. So the platform itself is interoperable across all eCommerce platforms and our retailers can be on board in just a couple of weeks with very minimal effort on their side and in most cases, no engineering effort. And then at the end of the day, their business is completely automated. So the orders that happen through NBC Universal Checkout drop into their eCommerce system as if they were actually placed on their own website, and then they can fulfill direct to the consumer and own the customer relationship going forward.

Brian: [00:19:21.21] Whoa. I like the sound of that actually. On the customer relationship. That's a huge deal for a lot of brands and retailers. And so my question then would be, so how do you become an NBC partner? Is this open to anyone? It sounds like it's pretty easy to implement if you're on a mainstream eCommerce platform. How do you curate these products?

Evan: [00:19:46.92] Yeah, so we have a team internally here that is working really closely with our network partners and formulating target lists of retailers that we want to come on board so that we can work with them and create those great alignments between the content we're publishing and their amazing products. At the end of the day, we're open to working with any retailer, but how successful their engagement with us is going to depend on their alignment with the content that we're actually looking to produce. So is a little bit of us reaching out to them and expressing our interest in working with them? And I got to tell you, so far, the response we've received from the market has just been incredible. And it's something that we're engaging with global retailers that have had longstanding relationships with NBC and then all the way down to direct to consumer companies that haven't even made Web Smith's Power List at this point, that nobody's heard of.

Phillip: [00:20:37.86] Man, we're peppering in all the SEO right now. This is great. {laughter}

Brian: [00:20:40.98] {laughter}

Evan: [00:20:40.98] {laughter}

Phillip: [00:20:40.98] Keep it up. That's great. But that's true, right? I'm trying to think of, you know, certain retailers I think would have... This is a brand new channel. And if you can see it as an opportunity to... How often do we see brand new channels emerge where an early investment could position you for, you know, multitudinous growth in that channel? Because I have to believe that once this channel is proven out as successful, there will be late followers in other media properties where this will become much more proven and then it will be a gold rush. And then it will be another channel that everybody's sort of over leveraged in. Why not be early to it? And I think that that's where the power of this is. Recognizing the opportunity and hopefully having a brand and products that position well among the audiences that you're putting it in front of right now.

Evan: [00:21:37.11] Yeah. And for us, we look at as a way for us to appeal to the long tail of advertisers that traditionally haven't had a good entry point into television or into working with a property like NBCU.

Brian: [00:21:47.41] Interesting. To me, this is well beyond advertising, this is like straight into, like marketplace. This is a media marketplace is what I'm kind of hearing.

Evan: [00:21:57.48] Yeah. I oftentimes refer to it as either a content driven or an audience driven marketplace.

Brian: [00:22:04.13] Interesting, so when it comes to brand alignment and we think about NBCs portfolio and you have pretty much content in every single category that I can think of. How big do you expect to make this is? Is there a target? Is there a plan? What's sort of the grand vision?

Evan: [00:22:23.39] I can't speak to specific numbers, but NBC looks at this as a business opportunity on par with anything else that they're pursuing. So they look at the world or the landscape right now of commerce and how retail sales are driven online and they see, one, where there's a lot of value that's given to platforms that capture shopping intent, that capture existing shopping intent. Talking about all your search platforms and your social platforms that are extremely good at retargeting users who have already shown some data point that they're very interested in a product. Where a whole lot of the value doesn't go to are the platforms that are actually inspiring intent. And that's where the real value is, right? If you go through any sort of an MBA course, what you'll learn is that brand is the difference between the cost of an item and the willingness to pay. And and that is where inspiration really drives value is in giving users that sense of brand and inspiring them to purchase those products. That's where all the value is created, as opposed to just capturing that intent that's already been created.

Phillip: [00:23:27.14] Well, since you stoke so much intent, I guess the next question would be, you know, is there a future value of merch or franchise license properties, which is probably stuff that already exists or is hidden away in an employee store? But how much owned audience potential is there for you to create products and brands out of your existing properties?

Evan: [00:23:52.03] You know, that's that's really not the focus of it right now, what we're really looking at is this is a way to build the channel for our retail partners who are definitely hurting at this time and a lot of ways. Because we're all aware with the pandemic that we're living through, it's harder than ever to get people to go into a physical retail footprint. And NBC has been partnering with retailers for decades now and cares a lot about those businesses. And so we really look at our retail partners as being the target for this and also appealing to the whole set of direct to consumer, consumer good brands that we haven't worked with to date. And that's who we're really trying to benefit with this platform, as opposed to using it as a way to drive sales against our own properties for now.

Brian: [00:24:37.94] It's really interesting as well. Maybe I just missed this, but on which platforms in which places will people be able to leverage these experiences? So NBC just released Peacock and you've got your website and the streaming capabilities there. And then you've got a whole bunch of other places where NBC exists.

Evan: [00:25:03.62] Yup.

Brian: [00:25:03.62] How will this experience be sort of propagated out through all the different places that NBC lives?

Evan: [00:25:11.63] That's a great question. So, yeah, right now, NBC Universal Checkout is working only on the Web, powering shoppable experience, either through written Web content, through static pages or through video as well, through an interactive video player that we can embed into pages across our portfolio. And that's primarily how we're going to be facilitating purchase for 2020. And then we'll be driving users into that experience through all of our different channels, including through Linear programing, by utilizing shoppable TV, either through integrations into actual content on shoppable TV or through commercial time, and driving into shoppable experiences on our NBC Web properties through social, through our many different social handles. I don't remember the actual number, but we have a combined followers in the hundreds of millions from across all of our different social audiences and actually utilizing those organic audiences to drive back in to an NBCU Checkout experience. And then, of course, through the actual footprint of those websites themselves and the organic audience that those Web properties actually reach out to on a monthly basis, which again reaches into the hundreds of millions of users per month. All of that's going to be purely domestic for 2020 within the US market, fulfilling only to users living in the US. But NBC Universal works with other international partners. We're a global company with Comcast. The platform itself is, as you were just referencing, built on top of a set of open APIs on top of a headless eCommerce platform, which means that in the future we can drive integration through any connected experience, in any part of the world. And it's just something that we'll be continuing to build on and explore, utilizing the US domestic market as a place where we really figure out what works and what doesn't.

Phillip: [00:26:58.79] Wow. For me, the question is because I like the human story at the center of this. Like, consumers are people, right? And the people that build products like this are are fundamentally people. I guess I would ask you, Evan, what about your past experience and the things you've learned leading up to this point, sort of informed the strategy, like the go to market product that you're actually building, but also how you built the team and how it all sort of comes together at the end to make it something really valuable that you're proud of?

Evan: [00:27:30.12] That's great question. Thank you so much for asking that. I think, as I mentioned earlier, Ticketmaster and Goop were the two previous work experiences I had before joining NBCU, and I took a lot of influence from my experience there. Ticketmaster, I headed up the commerce platform there and worked really closely with Dan Armstrong and his distributor commerce team. And while I was there, they drove an incredibly effective strategy of partnering with third party platforms like Pandora, Spotify, Bands in Town, Facebook to drive highly contextual commerce moments that were deeply integrated via open APIs into the experience and the actual experience of those third party platforms. So this went beyond just your traditional advertising model where you're essentially buying the attention of the consumer and instead created an experience that was valuable, that Ticketmaster was valuable to the third party platforms and at the end of the day was incredibly valuable to consumers themselves. And then after that at Goop, I was given the chance to experience the dual impact of a deeply integrated commerce strategy on a content and commerce business. So when I first joined Goop, it was doing fairly well, but it was basically two distinct and separate websites that were kind of slapped together with bandaids and bubblegum. And when we rolled out the first set of features that actually let users shop directly from the articles they were reading, instead of forcing them to link out to a separate experience, we not only saw a huge increase in conversion and average order value, but also an increase in the engagement with the actual content itself. And that meant that we were actually able to grow both the content and the eCommerce business at the same time. And that contributed to Goop kind of exploding over the years to follow. And I'm incredibly proud of what that team continues to do in the way they continue to innovate over there. So at NBCU I've got the experience to put both of those experiences into play and do that at a scale that I think would be hard to find anywhere else. And so I'm a product person. {cough} Excuse me. So the team I've built, there's a heavy emphasis on digital product. There's a heavy emphasis on business development. There was an existing business development team here at NBCU when I first joined, led by Leon Bert Williams and Brooke Gambler, who have deep experience in eCommerce. My boss, Josh Feldman, did a great job bringing them into the fold. They come from backgrounds at List and Amazon where they understand the needs of retailers and the needs of direct to consumer companies and actually understand marketplaces as well. And so they've been a huge core part of what we've been able to do. And we're for all intents and purposes, we're a startup within this giant global corporation that is Comcast NBC Universal, and we act like a startup. So we don't assume that anything's given to us. We know we need to prove our worth. And at the end of every year, we're back out there seeking investment and showing kind of proof points for the value that we've created and the market size of our opportunity.

Phillip: [00:30:15.38] Woo, OK. We'll have given you the last word. That was fantastic. I wish you all the success, too, because I feel like we've been converging on this, as an emerging channel or the idea of it has been out there for so long and it's going to take some real market leadership. And frankly a society that's confined to its homes for six, 12 months on end to set us up in a way to really accept it. That's true, though. If you look at other, the failure of other streaming platforms, which I'm not allowed to mention, the idea of experiences being outside of the home is a thing that... I said I was going to give you the last word. I should have just let you have it. But this idea of like experiences happening outside of your home. Well, now we're still going to be very experienced craved in at least in our society. That experience isn't going away. It's just changing home field. And today that's in your living room and it may be for a little bit of the foreseeable future. I think this is just brilliant. So congrats on the launch. I wish you all the success.

Evan: [00:31:25.67] Thank you so much. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate you bringing me on.

Phillip: [00:31:29.07] Yeah, glad to have you. Thanks again.

Brian: [00:31:30.87] Thank you, Evan.

Phillip: [00:31:30.87] Evan Moore is Vice President of Content and Commerce in ad sales at NBC Universal. And man, just so great. Evan, where can we point people to you to get doses of knowledge bombs?

Evan: [00:31:44.19] You know, I'm on the Twitter @evomoore mostly just posting bad memes too late, so enjoy that. Otherwise, you can always find me on LinkedIn, too.

Phillip: [00:31:58.47] That's great. Thanks, Evan, and thanks for listening. Thanks for paying attention to Future Commerce. We want you to lend your voice to the conversation. You can do that by dropping us a line at hello@FutureCommerce.fm. And hey, might as well plug our newest ebook, our newest report, Market Research Study that just came out called Retail Rebirth. It talks about how retailers like you can navigate these uncertain times. There it is. Another SEO phrase. And we really, truly believe that with good advice and a network of people around you to give you that good advice, you can craft a strategy that will not just help you survive 2020, but to thrive in the back half of 2020. You can get that today at FutureCommerce.fm/RetailRebirth. All right. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time. Thanks, Evan.