The Relatable Everyman

Orchid: [00:00:00] So I think in order to be The Everyman is to love the part of yourself that is deeply human and consistent and steady. And I know that our society doesn't always celebrate those things.

Kristen: [00:00:21] Welcome to Archetypes, a podcast by Future Commerce. I'm Kristen Vencel. Even with just a glance over the course of history, it's easy to see how important and powerful story has been throughout time. We humans thrive on story, whether we are the storytellers or the listeners. We feel connected to others through story. Archetypes is an exploration of the roles that we play in the story of a brand and features interviews with people who create the brands and experiences that are changing our world. It's an investigation into how we as people take part in these stories, ultimately making them our own. No matter who you are in this world, you engage in commerce. Commerce touches every living soul. We all have a role to play. We all have a story to tell. Archetypes is the story of commerce. The Everyman: an ordinary and approachable character. The Everyman perseveres through hard work but never seeks fame or recognition. These brands may have amazing stories, great products, and incredible people behind them, but they aren't trendy. We do tend to forget how important they are and how different life would be without them. The Everyman is always within reach, always there for us. But this wasn't everyone's favorite result when taking the Archetypes quiz. Not at first, at least. Welcome to this episode of Archetypes. First of all, when you took the Archetypes quiz and you got the result of Everyman, what was your initial response?

Jesse: [00:02:13] I had this like seriously visceral, negative reaction to that.

Kristen: [00:02:16] Jesse Lazarus, Chief Process and Innovation Officer at Kravet Inc.

Jesse: [00:02:21] Actually, I was with a team member of mine and we took the quiz at the same time and she got rated as an Explorer and I got rated as an Everyman. And I think I was just absolutely this is false on its face. And I remember I said to Brian, I think in retrospect it was because of the semantics of the explanation of The Everyman because, in the structure of it, it was laid out, as Everyman brands being kind of mundane, unremarkable, utilitarian. And it just, you don't think of the work you do in those terms. So it struck me as a negative connotation almost immediately.

Kristen: [00:03:07] Yes. The word ordinary in the description, I think, can create that reaction in a lot of people. You're not alone. In our culture often ordinary feels like we don't want to be that. But ordinary is beautiful. We need it. And sometimes the flashy or the out in front might have its day in the sun, but it doesn't last in the long run. And so The Everyman really is making the other archetypes have a place to stand, I think, in a lot of ways.

Orchid: [00:03:37] Well, where were you when I received my results? Because that seems much more palatable.

Kristen: [00:03:42] Orchid Bertelsen, Chief Operating Officer at Common Thread Collective.

Orchid: [00:03:47] No, I'm teasing. I agree. I think that we live in a very individualistic society where everybody wants to have something special about them. If you think about the literature that we read, whether it's Harry Potter, whether it's Acotar, that I'm reading right now, there's something about a hero or a heroine with newly discovered abilities that they seemed ordinary, but now they're extraordinary. And when you think about those stories being a part of our lives, it's something that we aspire to, [00:04:18] to find out that you are "ordinary," if you think about it in our society, it is frowned upon to be basic, to wear the same thing that everybody else wears, to eat and drink and think the way that everybody else does. But I think what it negates is the fact that there are some things that are so universally loved and useful that of course everybody gravitates towards it. It tends to be a little bit more utilitarian, but again, it is the fabric on which communities are woven. [00:04:50] You can't have everyone going off and trying to do a new thing, and those new things don't tend to be scalable, although there is again, another role of it within society. So I think in order to be The Everyman is to love the part of yourself that is deeply human and consistent and steady. And I know that our society doesn't always celebrate those things.

Kristen: [00:05:19] Yes, I agree. And it's really a timeless... Really when you look all throughout history and all throughout literature, over time as well, there is that timelessness of it that is very important. That's so interesting. I love that. I also love in our Archetypes journal, one of the parts about Everyman is "always within reach, always there for us from cradle to grave." And I think there's a lot of beauty as well in the approachability of The Everyman, because it's hard sometimes to approach a Hero or an Outlaw, you know, but The Everyman is always there for us. So in a lot of ways it's accessible to everyone and to those who maybe have barriers or boundaries around the approachability of other archetypes, for example.

Orchid: [00:06:10] I think it's very relational and I think [00:06:12] The Everyman can relate in some respect to everyone. Of course, not to the outliers, but I think the relatability in the most basic human sense of what it means to be human, the basic necessities that we need to live, but also the basic things that we need in order to start to become more of ourselves in order to flourish. [00:06:34] And it's almost like we are the base level of the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And without us, I don't think society would exist. Society wouldn't have those opportunities to find the beautiful, special, and unique things because the basic needs are met.

Kristen: [00:06:51] So have your feelings changed since that initial test result?

Jesse: [00:06:55] They have. And they changed honestly, because I started to almost self-police conversations that I was in subsequent to that where pushing on best practices, pushing on user experience, talking about the way that we try to do things. I have a large audience with varying abilities, expectations, and needs, and have multiple user journeys. So any conversation I ended up in where we were talking about why we designed something in a certain way, why we were pressing on certain things, I realized I was basically just beating the drum for The Everyman at that point. And I think I had said to Brian and Phillip at one point, "You know, I'm going to wear it with pride now," because I believe when I put the semantics of the description aside, I truly believe that [00:07:50] brands that want to scale, that want to have longevity, that want to address a large audience or a varying marketplace, the core of that build has to be from the largest applicable perspective, and that is going to be The Everyman concept. There's a time for trendiness, for innovation, for pushing the envelope, but I believe at a certain point when you are proving to enough of a varied audience, that has to be one tool in the kit, not the only tool, a [00:08:26]nd what you really need is an experience that almost gets out of the way for the standard user, for the everyday user. And that means you're doing things that are their basic expectations. You're not confusing people as to where an add to cart button is because you've done something phenomenal from a design perspective. You're not causing friction points because you've tried to be a bit avant garde with what you're doing. Not to say that any of those things are negative. They absolutely have applicability. But in a wide enough audience, the variation in user expectations means you have to play to those best practices and give everybody a seamless journey and then apply those other functions where it makes sense. So yeah, in all of my discussions since then I've come to look at it like a badge of honor. I think the people that would test that way and the brands that would be considered that way, I think are creating the effective marketplace for others to play in. And they're doing that because of that approach.

Kristen: [00:09:35] As you've considered it even further since then, how has your insight maybe changed or even deepened?

Kris: [00:09:42] The Archetypes project that Future Commerce has been doing has been very interesting to just help me think about the world differently, especially as a marketer.

Kristen: [00:09:51] Kris Gösser, Chief Marketing Officer at Shipium.

Kris: [00:09:55] I already as a CMO kind of view the world through profiles for better or worse.

Kristen: [00:10:01] Right, right.

Kris: [00:10:02] And segments and whatnot. But really diving into how this fits with a lot of what Future Commerce does and the way that they think about the world. And then just really starting to look at the companies that I sell to or market to differently in terms of who are the actual people that are building these brands, whether it's a pet food delivery company or chocolate company or shoe company or whatever the case may be, that there are different personalities within it. So [00:10:32] I've actually started to now think even more aggressively than I was prior about who are the actual people behind the brands that are building these things. And I think Archetypes overall has been interesting and helpful in that way. [00:10:44] And so as it relates to your direct question of The Everyman, [00:10:49] I've actually started to see more businesses that I think are The Everyman [00:10:54] than I thought because it's very easy to spot the ones that are a bit the opposite of The Everyman, I guess, you know, of like grandstanding and like everything else, which then only shines a greater spotlight on the ones that aren't like that, which is The Everyman.

Kristen: [00:11:16] What are some brands or companies that you see as The Everyman?

Orchid: [00:11:44] So the way that I think about The Everyman is similar to technology. The most perfect technology is absolutely invisible. It just is. It just allows you to do the thing that you want to do. But bad technology, technology that's full of friction, it is incredibly infuriating. And it actually doesn't allow you to move forward. So I think Everyman products, run our daily lives, but it's not ostentatious. It doesn't scream that I am here. It just merely allows you and enables you to live your life.

Kristen: [00:12:23] Yes, it just works.

Kris: [00:12:25] As I think about things in terms of digital products that I use, a really good one that stands out is this task manager called Things. It's been around since the mid-2000s, probably almost 20 years. I'm sure everyone who has a Mac or iPhone knows about it, but it's just it's always there. It's always good, it's always humble. And it's not trying to do anything more than what it is, and it's just kind of the best at that. And then as I go out of the digital realm into more of the physical realm, I think of brands that everyone has thought of or even possibly bought from that really feel like The Everyman. So two that came to mind were Ikea in the sense that, just speaking from a personal life experience of having recently moved from selling one house and buying a different house, and that process of moving and you realize some of this old furniture is not a fit in the new house and all that kind of stuff. It's like, wow, Ikea is really a bit of a godsend in terms of their brand, their offering, their products, or things like that. And it's just so understated in terms of how important they are that if they went away, it would be a bit painful. And similarities would be things like, say, grocery stores. Out here in the Pacific Northwest we have Safeway. I know from a regional point of view, there's different ones like that throughout the whole country. You got like Publix in the Southeast, etcetera. My point is that you can go to a farmer's market, you can find some interesting niche products via DTC brands, etcetera. But at the end of the day, [00:14:06] going to Safeway or the grocery store every week is essentially my weekly Everyman journey. And you can always depend on the prices. You can depend on the products, you can depend on them solving a need for you without ever really kind of grandstanding about it. [00:14:24]

Orchid: [00:14:25] The easiest brands for me that fulfill the Everyman role are brand names that are synonymous with their category. For example, Kleenex. I think very few people say, "Can you grab me a tissue?" And say, "Do you have a Kleenex?" You have Tylenol or Advil. You don't say, "Hey, can I get some acetaminophen?" Although I guess some people say that. But largely people don't say, "I have a headache. Please get me an Advil." So I think that when you have a brand that actually represents the category, that's usually a pretty good indication of having an Everyman brand. I think another good indication are products that you have on subscription. So for me, I have an almost one-year-old. So diapers are always on the subscription plan. You can obviously pick your poison when it comes to brands, but Pampers, I think, is a really good example of an Everyman brand. In that case, I think Gerber is a really good example with multiple products that allow you to enjoy your time with your baby. So most of the time I think [00:15:40] one, if your name is synonymous with the category, that's a good indicator of an Everyman brand. And second, anything that you have on subscription because you simply cannot live without. [00:15:51]

Kristen: [00:15:51] When it comes to The Everyman, is there anything else that you think is important to share, whether it be from a personal perspective or professionally, that you would want to say to The Everyman or just things that you've further thought about?

Jesse: [00:16:08] After going through the whole Archetypes book, I think I made the comment to Phillip at one point. I think the takeaway that I have from there is that I think brands, team members on those brands, you have to try to be all of those things. They all serve an important role. And it's easy, I think, sometimes to get lost in, like, I was gonna say the Twitter-sphere. The DTC Twitter-sphere or eCom X where everybody's talking about, "Oh, this amazing thing." And "That is the bleeding edge," and etcetera, etcetera. And it's easy to forget who the majority of your user base is. You absolutely need to, as I said, you need to push the envelope. You need to explore new areas, but you also need to serve the standard user. And ultimately, I think a successful venture has a little bit of all of those Archetypes involved in some particular way. So I'd love to sit here and say The Everyman's holding it down {laughter} and we are the ones kind of establishing the guidelines. But I think [00:17:23] in the end, you couldn't do it only as an Everyman, right? You have to have a mix of all of those attitudes and approaches and brands that can effectively inhabit a majority of those things I think are the most successful that are in the market. [00:17:35]

Kristen: [00:17:35] Yeah, that's one of my favorite things about the Archetypes together is how we really do need each other and we all work together to really help each other be better and then help the community as a whole be better. What would your reaction be if your result of the Archetypes quiz was Everyman too? I think we found that ordinary doesn't mean forgettable. Check out more about The Everyman in the Archetypes Journal. Get your copy at ArchetypesJournal.com. Archetypes is brought to you by Future Commerce. Discover the world of Archetypes, take the Archetypes quiz, and get the Archetypes Journal at ArchetypesJournal.com. You can find more episodes of this podcast and all Future Commerce properties at FutureCommerce.com.