Game Face: Female Athletes Are Redefining Commerce

Alexa: [00:00:00] When you see an athlete on the court wearing, you know, full glam, that is a maximum form of self-expression, and it also just proves the product performance as well. So you've got a diverse range of self-expression opportunities and then kind of demonstrating that, but then also demonstrating product efficacy.

Brian: [00:02:09] Hello, and welcome to Future Commerce, the podcast at the intersection of culture and commerce. I'm Brian.

Phillip: [00:02:15] I'm Phillip. Brian, I love that. You did the thing. You said Future {with emphasis} Commerce instead of Future Commerce {with emphasis}.

Brian: [00:02:20] I know you'd grounded into me. "We rebranded as Future Commerce a while back."

Phillip: [00:02:24] The emphasis was on the wrong part for too long. We're Future {with emphasis} Commerce, not Future Commerce {with emphasis}. I'm back in the chair. I'm home. I'm in Florida. This is fantastic. I spent a month in London, which was awesome. There's this thing that...

Brian: [00:02:44] I was jealous.

Phillip: [00:02:44] Honestly, it was the greatest month ever. In that time, though, we didn't slow down at all. We have an onslaught of content that we debuted and a bunch of new columns and things that happened over in Future Commerce.

Brian: [00:02:58] The London Brief.

Phillip: [00:03:00] The London Brief, digital media stuff and one of our closest friends and a long time collaborator... I was thinking I was counting up this time. I think every month this year to some degree our friend Alexa Lombardo has been part of our content build in just collaborating. So welcome. I'm so excited to have on the podcast here, now Alexa's in London. I'm not in London anymore, but I hope you're keeping cool over there in the very warm summer climbs. Welcome back to the show, Alexa Lombardo.

Alexa: [00:03:34] Thank you. Thank you guys so much for having me. It was great to have you over here in London for a brief period of time. I enjoyed our hang. And, no, it's really, really hot, and there's no AC. And pretty pretty brutal. But I'm excited to be on, and it's been so fun working and collaborating with you guys this year. And yeah, just I'm looking forward to talking more about this topic and also excited to introduce one of my closest friends and collaborators into the Future {with emphasis} Commerce... Future Commerce?

Phillip: [00:04:11] {laughter} I love it.

Alexa: [00:04:12] Future Commerce fold, Candace Stewart. Candace and I have been working together. We've been friends for years now. We kind of dove down the Web3 rabbit hole at the same time. She works in innovation at a major sports league and is also a former Team USA athlete. So she is very, very well informed on this topic that we're going to be chatting about today.

Candace: [00:04:41] Yeah. Alexa, thanks for introducing me. I feel like this is perfect. I feel like I'm being introduced to a team. I can't wait to get my jersey and...

Alexa: [00:04:48] Welcome.

Phillip: [00:04:52] {laughter} Love it. Team FC.

Brian: [00:04:53] I like that.

Candace: [00:04:54] Merch. Merch. Merch.

Phillip: [00:04:54] Yeah. Oh, and that's what it's all about. And we'll talk a little bit about that too.   you know, Candace, you probably have this perspective that very few people in the world have of the stage and the athleticism that's on display right now at the Olympics. I'm sure that we'll talk a little bit about that too. By the time this comes out, I think we'll probably be winding down Olympics coverage in the United States. But is this a really exciting time for you? Is this nostalgic in some way, maybe?

Candace: [00:05:25] Yeah. No. It's super cool. Hamble's playing. Team USA is not playing, but it's cool to watch emerging sports like rugby, currently, got a bronze medal. Team USA soccer, because former soccer player too, winning right now. So it's just a fun time to watch sports. And also, it's just all collaborations, especially seeing Fenty there and different beauty brands, which I've never seen before.

Phillip: [00:05:50] One last question on that front, though. When you are watching the narratives and sort of the stories that unfold during, you know, broadcast Olympic coverage, how many of these names are names that you're very familiar with? How many of these athletes are people that are known to other athletes but are just not known to the general public until, you know, we have this sort of world stage?

Candace: [00:06:16] One thing, there's women's sports. There's not a lot of women who are known in general. There's Simone Biles is probably the biggest name who's playing right now. Like, Alex Morgan wasn't included on the roster for Team USA, which was huge because she is the voice and brand of Team USA in the past. So that's another person that no one knows. A lot of them are emerging. Olympic sports are different too because it's not all paid. The people aren't paid to be there. So they are going on their own dime. They're raising money. There are different things going on in the Olympics that are not going on in the professional traditional sports world. So a lot of them are not known, so they're making their name here. You could see that with rugby and different sports.

Alexa: [00:07:04] From my point of view, I mean, there are some of these athletes who are creating such an amount of, just really stoking the conversation right now and creating so much buzz and energy, Ilona Maher in particular. Right? She was super active in the last Olympics, but right now, it's just like there's so much energy around it. And I'm just thinking about what's next? Do we sustain this? I hope that these athletes can continue to grow their platform and not like, I hope we're not going to watch them... I would just love to see the energy sustain. And I don't know, Candace, what's your point of view on that?

Candace: [00:07:49] Yeah. Ilona Maher is super interesting. My friend played for team USA rugby. That's also she was part of that team. So I've seen Ilona Maher in general before she started her actual social media presence, and you could see her grow very rapidly. But in a niche space, because rugby was pretty much a niche sport, and then I think her persistence, which shows a lot of athletes persistence matters, helped her grow to a point where everybody noticed the Olympics. And the Olympics is like, "Let's use this athlete to show rugby and show the Olympics because she does it well." And that's why her content has grown 3X.

Alexa: [00:08:31] Yeah. It's pretty amazing.

Brian: [00:08:33] Yeah. I think this is really interesting because you think about this and how brands treat, you know, their tentpole moments. You think about BFCM or Prime Day or maybe a big holiday, depending on what kind of brand you are. And that's their moment to get out there and get in front of a whole new set of people. But a lot of brands miss the opportunity to follow up on that and have a game plan for post big moment. And I think both of you are kind of touching on how hard it is to once you do get that new recognition use that and be able to sustain and grow based on that and figure out who's going to stick around, who is just there for the moment, and how to cultivate that. I think that's huge. And that's actually really apropos, I think, for today's discussion, which is both of you just cowrote a piece for us called Game Face. So, yeah, getting your face out there. "How Beauty Brands Are Scoring Big With Women's Sports." And we think about Ilona Maher, you referenced her pretty heavily in the piece. There are a lot of opportunities right now for female athletes to have beauty brand partnerships, which could help them sustain that ongoing face time with their fans. And so talk a little bit about this, but I'd love to go deeper. How are those relationships between beauty brands with female athletes different from traditional celebrity endorsements?

Alexa: [00:10:11] From my point of view, and Candace and I were actually in Cannes together this year, and Stagwell did this really amazing activation called Sport Beach, and they brought a lot of female athletes there. And I think, we talked about this a lot, and one of the speakers who was there was Alexis Ohanian, obviously, you know, married to one of or potentially the greatest female athlete of all time. And he was talking about how female athletes are just really they're better storytellers versus, you know, their male counterparts. But if you're not looking at them just like female athletes versus male athletes, you're looking at them in the kind of the whole realm of influencers, right, or even celebrities. Candace pointed out something earlier whether it's persistence or hard work or being self made. There are these sort of values that also are represented by athletes that I think set them apart from potential celebrities or or influencers that make people feel very connected to them. They also have this built-in, like I mean, they're cultivating a fan base, a very avid fan base, and they're able to connect with them now better either through their games and kind of on the field, but also on social media. It's just like a very different kind of partner, if you want to think of them as an influencer just by virtue of them being an athlete. And then the female component because female athletes have traditionally not received as much, you know, media attention, they've had to build out their own social presence, and that has forced them to kind of become better storytellers and really talk about the other aspects of their personal lives and their personalities. And that, again, makes them also able to connect more with their audience. And so when you're when you're looking at what everyone's talking about right now in terms of choosing the right partners, it's all about authenticity. It's all about community and really building a connection that doesn't feel like it's kind of paid. I think athletes and female athletes in particular are positioned to deliver on that a lot more effectively.

Candace: [00:12:38] Yeah. I think to add to that is just thinking of the archetype of a celebrity versus an athlete. Like, a celebrity, you're not supposed to fail. If you fail, there's a PR around it. You have to figure out the story. But as an athlete, you play a sport, you're going to fail. There are going to be bad days, and that is part of your storyline. So the idea of growth and grit is part of what they do and being authentic you have to be. As a celebrity, you're an influencer, you could create authenticity.   So I think that's an interesting thing to lean into for the athletes' piece because it's naturally part of them, and it makes them more human and relatable.

Alexa: [00:13:23] Yeah. And there's also this almost hero's journey type of element to it. And I think, you know, influencers, like I was thinking about this actually yesterday as I was looking at much more closely a lot of the content that Ilona Maher, once again, just because everyone is so obsessed with her, so I'm really looking at her a lot. I just think that so many of the influences that that we look at, we're really envious, and we're almost like, it's kind of like we love to hate them. Do we even like them? Like, I'm not rooting for them. I'm jealous. I'm like, "That's fake." The ideas that cross my mind like, I'm usually rolling my eyes, but with an athlete and with an athlete that you're watching them out there. You're right, Candace. You're potentially watching them fail. You're watching them experience heartbreak. Right? You feel for them and therefore you're rooting for them. You're celebrating the wins with them and you're mourning the losses. And that is not something that, you know, you have with an influencer. How you relate to them is very different.

Phillip: [00:14:37] The emotional difference and the distance between jealousy and envy is jealousy is, "I wish I had that," and envy is, "They don't deserve that and I do." And I think that there's a really fine line between the way that these archetypes of influence, to borrow one of your phrases, Alexa, there is the way that influence has evolved online has become more of the we feel like we're sharing in an experience, a parasocial relationship, and wanting to experience that shared feeling of success together, especially when you're early to a relationship with a creator. And that's where athletics has just such a natural tie. The feeling like you're part of someone's storyline, especially when you're early on, has a much clearer line for the share of victory when you win. But, Candace, let's talk a little bit about the way that that has evolved is that without commerce, and all roads lead back to commerce, especially at Future Commerce. {laughter} Without the commercial relationships, both with athletes and teams and sort of these spheres of influence where brands can be involved, there isn't enough money or commercialization flowing into sports to create a virtuous cycle where more people are getting involved and more people are becoming part of the story. So let's talk a little bit about that evolution and how that's come about because it used to be things like WNBA were sort of a sad punch line, but it's become a main storyline now. So how do we get there?

Candace: [00:16:19] Yeah. I think it's a lot to do with storytelling. If we just take the Caitlin Clark Angel Reese narrative right now and just talk to WNBA in specific, These two girls were playing in the March Madness against each other year after year. Caitlin Clark being the top 3 point shooter, shooting ridiculous 3s outside of the normal, especially women, 3 point range. How is she doing that? And then Angel Reese being phenomenal on the court and also personality off the court where you could have an opinion of her, made it a story that could be told on social media. So between those two and being super competitive at March Madness and started drawing an audience made March Madness, NCAA pay attention to the storyline and being like, "We could sell that. We probably can make more dollars around this. So they started leaning into it. ESPN started leaning into it. You could see the stories. Like, I used to look at Instagram and just scroll and say, "How many women posts are here?" Not many. But now you see it literally every other post, there's women posts around some athlete. So I think it had a lot to do with them saying, "Oh, this is marketable now because we see how these women are showing up and telling their stories. And it's just coming about. I don't think women weren't telling their stories before. I think it's just it was good timing where Angel Reese is killing it on the court and also Caitlin Clark is killing it on the court, and now there's a huge storyline about their competitiveness.

Brian: [00:18:44] I think this gets back to that authenticity that you mentioned earlier, Candace. I think these are it's almost like it's a perfect vehicle for social and for commentary when you have a story that is heated up between two people, and it's not inauthentic. Like, there's a lot of beefs out there that just feel made up or for no reason, but these are all real interactions for good reasons that are happening. And so I do think that now is the time because it's just it's resonating. It's almost like sports were the original reality TV in many ways. They were the best possible form of it because there was good reason for the stories to be told. And so, yeah, I think that's super interesting. And how do you see it... We talked a little bit about media and the interaction with social media. How are we going to start to see the partnerships with brands start to play a role in this social story? Because I think that's another really important part of this.

Phillip: [00:20:04] You said reality TV, and it got my mind thinking, Brian, about there are storylines in the WNBA that could never exist in the NBA as we know it today. For instance, the number of queer athletes and the relationships between them seems to be a thing that just could not exist in the NBA as we know it today. Alyssa Thomas, DeWanna Bonner, these are names and relationships and storied sort of things that just exist on a totally different plane that doesn't exist in men's sports or is not as accepted in men's sports. I'm curious if you think that those sorts of things along with things that are inherently female centric and very cultural around female beauty, these are things that allow for a deeper and richer experience in athletics for women that just don't exist, and men have no analog.

Candace: [00:21:00] I think it first brings in a more diverse audience base. We in women's sports, truly embrace the LGBTQ community, and they're a huge part of growing the sport. And then during the women's game for the Olympics, Alex Cooper was doing the alt cast for them. And she brought on Tobin Heath and Kristen Press, and she asked them about their relationship. And they told their story, which we've never heard them tell their story because, obviously, there is some taboo around it, and I think we're figuring that out right now. Like, what does that look like?  Because yes, that brings so much more authenticity and also so much more realness and makes people want to listen and watch and hear about what's going on realistically in a sport. And, yeah, in the men's case, there's just so many boundaries that they have to cross to even get there. So, yeah, it's an interesting other piece that women's sports could bring in these type of stories that are relatable to a community that gets not included a lot of the time.

Alexa: [00:22:13] Yeah. But also you're invested. Right? And I think, to go back to an obvious example, the surge in women watching the Super Bowl this year. Because they're invested in the relationship between Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift. There are a lot of stories like that to get invested in women's sports, and that's because, again, it's like a cycle because they're better at telling the stories, and people get more invested, and then more people tune in. And then so I think that's something unique, and I definitely think that there's a vulnerability there that also inherently, that there's no kind of, to talk about that being potentially more taboo in male sports or something, whereas in female sports, it's more... And I don't know. It's a difficult subject to assess objectively, I should say. But I think that type of vulnerability and being able to connect is something that is unique to women's sports and, hopefully, is, you know, going to start to shape all of sports, you know, because I think, again  there's just you're seeing the results of that, and you're seeing how it's actually creating more revenue opportunities as well as increasing, you know, viewership, etcetera, etcetera. So yeah.

Candace: [00:23:56] I think taking sexuality out of the play and talking about relationships. I like how Alexa kind of talked about Travis Kelce and Taylor. There are so many relationships in sports between athletes in general just relationships between athletes, like Mal Swanson is dating an MLB player. Simone Biles is dating an NFL player. he stories are more coming out on the women's side because it's I also think that we like to tell stories around relationships. And that's an important piece. So I think that's interesting too. The relationship stories you're seeing a lot come out, especially on social media, through the lens of women.

Phillip: [00:26:11] What about... Are there inherent challenges, or is there a future benefit to this idea of resetting standards and traditional beauty standards around like, does sport give us the opportunity for athletes to help us recontextualize what beauty brands narratives would reinforce because when you're working with a traditional celebrity, potentially like a movie star, you have one standard of beauty that you might be reinforcing. There's something new that's available to an athlete who might not fit into that traditional mold.

Alexa: [00:27:48] Yeah. I mean, I think, it also is not even so much about what they look like as much as what their body serves. It's the strength. It's the empowerment. It's the diligence. It's the commitment. Right? Like, that is like an athlete's body. Right? And so I think it's more about removing the conversation from taking it from being just about aesthetics to what beauty actually is. And I think, you know, so many of these beauty brands claim to stand for empowerment, but when you're using models or celebrities in your campaign, there's no connection to that necessarily. Certainly being an actor there's, you know, a craft associated with that. But I think an athlete, you look at an athlete and you look at their body and you look at what it enables them to do, and it's just a much more realistic like, it's just a much more kind of tangible connection around that idea of strength and empowerment. And so I think for brand, it's an opportunity to really put your money where your mouth is. If you're saying that you're about empowerment it's a very obvious connection. And so I think definitely moving away from beauty being an aesthetic thing to beauty being more of what beauty actually is.

Candace: [00:29:23] Yeah. I think to add, for me putting on the lens of a former athlete or just a girl growing up trying to figure out if I want to wear makeup or whatever and who am I looking at? Obviously my first look is at athletes, and there's a range of women who don't wear makeup to wearing whatever they wear. And I think right now, if you go on TikTok and stuff like that, you'll see the clean girl aesthetic, which is a minimum look. And then you'll see the no makeup look, which is tinted moisturizer and a little bit of blush. And then you'll see a soft glam where they're actually wearing makeup, and they might wear lipstick, and they might wear lashes. And those ones, you see a lot with athletes in general, where it's like, you see the Angel Reese, she falls really kind of in the soft glam because she has full lashes on. She might wear lipstick. And then Caitlin Clark, maybe no makeup look. Right? So it's different variety than even in the yeah. Just in different spaces, there's just so many different athletes, and you could kind of figure out where they fit. And there is products that they use that make sense in general. But, yeah, it's harder to relate to a celebrity as a girl growing up like me.

Alexa: [00:30:42] But I think also the other thing that is coming up for me, Candace, when you're talking about that is that makeup as a form of self-expression. And when you think about traditionally, I think that a long time ago, there was this idea that if you're working out, if you're going to the gym you're not wearing makeup. But that's just not true anymore. And when you see an athlete on the court wearing full glam, that is a maximum form of self-expression. And it also just proves the product performance as well. So I think that's another thing too where there's an added benefit of you can see the product that's being used and worn. And then on top of that, you're under, you know, pressure. You're in extreme conditions. You're in you're in heat. You're exposed to sweat. But all these different things that also like, even if you're wearing a minimal look there's probably something on your skin. So I think it also ties into being able to really sell the product benefits. So you've got a diverse range of self-expression opportunities and then kind of demonstrating that, but then also demonstrating product efficacy. And so I think no matter which girl you are  I think that that there's someone that you can relate to there and there's some storyline that'll fit with you. Because I think even if it is the no makeup girl, you're like, "Wow. She wears that? That means that's going to work really well because it's being stress tested. These are extreme conditions." I think there's a lot of use based relationship too between these women and the products that they're using and the stories that they can tell. But, also, once again, is another benefit to these brands partnering with them.

Brian: [00:32:37] Such a real phenomenal point about the efficacy of the product because it's such a great way to set yourself apart as a brand. Whenever you have more need, like  utility to your product, I think it gives you opportunity to set yourself apart in other ways. And so it's such an incredible angle. I love that. I also want to get back to something around empowerment because I feel like it actually is tying together a couple of things. You've talked about this earlier, Phillip, about how some female leagues are just getting going off the ground, and there's still a lot of this going on especially as we see emerging sports. Usually, a women's league will follow shortly behind the men's league or whatever. And, actually, I think of a major league indoor soccer, which just got released, and a relative of mine just got signed to a team. But the crazy and that's actually not public yet. But the craziest thing about this is they're actually encouraged and expected to keep their full time job because there's just not enough money in it yet. And so there's a lot of pressure on them to both perform as athletes and support themselves in a normal career, and that's pretty intense. And so I feel like there's a huge opportunity right now in female leagues in particular for brands to tell stories about empowerment because this could be a way that a female athlete that isn't getting paid what she deserves because there's not enough eyeballs or attention yet and cheerleaders too. This is another example. They don't even get paid. I was just talking to someone who was I think it was a Lakers or I actually didn't know that a lot of cheerleaders are they're getting paid a pittance for what they do, and they're running full time jobs as well. And that's on me. I should have known that.

Candace: [00:34:52] No. No. No. I feel like a lot of people don't know that. I think the majority of, yeah, I  wish I could tell you the stat of it, but majority of athletes aren't getting paid and are not getting paid well. I was just listening to the the guy who's on the 3v3 men's this is men's side too. 3v3 USA men's basketball team. He's an engineer. Like, that's what his full time job is, but he works remote so that he could travel, play basketball, and then also do a job that gives him money. Olympic side, for sure. Most of those athletes have a job unless you're literally on the men's national basketball team or team USA soccer or the most known sports. Even rugby, they have jobs. These people aren't getting paid, so they have to figure it out. And you talk about rugby, and that's why they're going towards content creating. Because to do rugby full time, they have to figure out ways to play and also create money without not being able to play. It's such a balance of how do I maximize my time in my sport? That's content creation, telling stories around your actual day to day instead of trying not to work a full time job.

Alexa: [00:36:12] After the women's rugby team won the other day, I think it was once again always coming back to Ilona. She, you know, was like, "I hope this means more investment in the sport." And a woman saw that and gave $4,000,000. Just gave that to the sport. And I think that type of investment, when you have a platform and there's that many people watching you, it immediately puts pressure on people. But, also you have a platform now, and so you actually can reach people. And I think that's the other reason why you're seeing things. These sports are really emotional, and I think, you know, beauty is too. And that's the other reason why these are a great combo. And when you've got an athlete telling a story and talking about your product people are like you know, it's really believable. There's an emotional component when it comes to the athlete that you support. And, you know, if they're supporting a brand, you're getting that kind of emotional feeling too. And I think that also is a big component here is that type of emotionally driven decision making that a lot of brands are struggling to cultivate that emotional connection with their customers right now and athletes and female athletes in particular can really help crack that for them.

Candace: [00:37:38] And I think solution-wise brands invest in the potential of these sports, deciding what sport they want to see grow, what sports they think are going to grow, and putting their brand behind them before they're huge. So it's right now, it's a perfect opportunity to go to rugby and say, "Hey. We would love to be a league partner" because that sport's going to grow in the US so substantially in the next couple of years.

Brian: [00:38:06] Which is awesome, by the way.

Phillip: [00:38:07] I think it's awesome too. I think my mind is always going to come back to the what does the brand need to continue to find new markets, new opportunities, new growth? But I'm sure that there's somebody out there who feels like brands are commercializing. They're over commercializing or there is this danger where they come in and sort of co-opt the growth or the story of a sport or maybe the purity of a sport. Are there these types of criticisms that people feel like brands coming in could potentially create problems? Because I'm sure I mean, that's not my perspective. I think, generally, we need a marketplace to see growth, and we need more people to have if you want a full time job, there's gotta be commerce available in a marketplace of opportunity for people. So I think brands have a role to play. But what are some of the criticisms?

Candace: [00:39:07] You look at SKIMS by Kim Kardashian, and that's the case where people are arguing, does this belong for a partnership for NBA or WNBA? Does it make sense? But she's done it right. She's included the athletes. The athletes are centered in that. And even she went over to the Olympics and had a partnership with the Olympics where she gave them all swimwear. She did it with the athletes, and the athletes told their story around it. So I think you could say that Kim Kardashian's brand normally wouldn't be an athletic type brand, but she's done it right. So I think that's a playbook to look at.

Alexa: [00:39:54] Yeah. I mean, gosh. I love Kim Kardashian. I love the Kardashians. I think they lead with authenticity. Her daughter, North, is really into the WNBA, super into sport. There is an authenticity piece there. I don't think you could say they're just seizing a commercial opportunity. Now crypto.com, funding F1. Crypto was actually the number one investor in sports sponsorships last year and the year before. And, like well, I don't think actually last year because market wasn't doing as well. But regardless I think that's where then you can start to really doubt. But who's going to benefit or rather who's going to suffer if you don't have these companies that have all this money to invest somewhere? They're going to invest it into some place else. Why shouldn't it be sports? And so I don't know. When you have so many sports desperate to be funded and to get more fans and more growth, I don't see why that's  a bad thing. But I also just think sports are just trending right now. Even just when you think about what's going on with obviously, pickleball is huge, but now you're seeing instead there was a surge in member's club, but now we're seeing that evolve to kind of the new country club. People are starved for social activities. Like, they're starved for connection. Dating apps aren't working, so they're doing things in groups. Sports are part of that, and I think we're just going to continue to see sports grow. And there's a natural fit for brands to come in there and be there. When you're going to play a sport, you're also going to be potentially having a drink, or you're also going to be wearing an outfit, or you're also going to whatever you're doing you're using brands. And so I think that there is synergy there no matter what. Even if it is for just the shrewdest of business opportunities, I think it's good for these sports to get investment from brands.

Candace: [00:42:13] Yeah. And the learning opportunity in general. It's like implement, change, implement, change. They're trying to make it work. I don't think brands are doing this being like, "We'll get the money, but we also want our fans to be interested." So just the opportunity to implement that and then change it.

Brian: [00:42:29] Yeah. What are the two of you... I would love to hear this from both of you, but what would be a dream collab between a female athlete and a brand? It doesn't necessarily have to be beauty, or even just what's a really good opportunity that you see?

Candace: [00:42:44] So women's basketball is so awesome because a lot of them wear lashes. And I always look at them, and I'm like, "How do you keep those lashes on?" So a lash brand or a big brand collabing and talking through lashes and how they do this and what they're wearing would be awesome, in my opinion. I think that's such an opportunity for lashes in general. So I said it first, so when I do it. Marta is a woman's soccer player for Brazil. She wears lipstick. I'm not sure if it's sponsored or not. I've never heard of the sponsor, but it never comes off. The lipstick is perfect all the time. And just average day woman wearing lipstick for a couple hours, it's gone. But she plays a whole soccer game with lipstick on, so seeing her partner with a lipstick brand would be super cool. And then there are basic ones where we need sunscreen. And it's really super simple. It's just take the athlete where they're at, what they do, and partner with them based on those things. Like, the pregame routines of the trend on TikTok is Get Ready With Me. Get ready with athletes and look through their product and partner with them with some of the products they have.

Alexa: [00:43:57] Yeah. That's what I have to say. I don't think there's some silver bullet or some type of really novel partnership. It's literally what are the already natural, where is the natural fit? And I think there's already so much of it. I think brands just try to contrive so much or their agencies try to contrive so much when, really, it can be quite simple. So I think brands thinking about how they can fit into the lives of these athletes and because when you look at the stories that they're often telling, a lot of the ones that are getting the highest engagement aren't even when they're playing their sport that they're playing. And I think the other thing about female athletes is a lot of them are also moms. And so I think that there's just some other really interesting potential plays there. I don't think sports were ever gone, but I definitely think they're more buzzy in pop culture now than ever. If the average person is both watching now and playing sports more okay, then it's like a lifestyle thing. And so what are the other lifestyle elements and lifestyle brand or products that you can integrate? I think that natural integration is there's a big opportunity for that.

Phillip: [00:45:16] Well, the natural integration is probably why we have so many Sky Rizzi ads right now. So I'm happy to to see it grow from there, although those things are a natural part of life too. So great. And thank you for thinking about the future of commerce implications in this area. I can't wait for another collaboration, Candace, with you and Alexa. It's been great to have your thoughts, your expertise put in front of our audience is just such a privilege. Thank you so much.

Alexa: [00:45:52] Thank you, guys.

Candace: [00:45:53] Yeah. Thank you. Excited.

Phillip: [00:45:56] Yeah. And thank you all for listening. This episode of Future Commerce obviously is not able to be created without our partnership with our Plus members. So if you do want to support Future Commerce, you want to support us, we love our ad partners, but you can get ad-free episodes of this podcast and more, including our member briefings and bonus content. You get it all at FutureCommerce.com/Plus. Thank you for listening to this episode of Future Commerce.

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