The Beginner's Mindset is Full of Possibilities

Phillip: [00:01:08] Hello and welcome to Future Commerce, the podcast about hydration {laughter} and all things commerce related and staying extremely hydrated. I'm Phillip.

Brian: [00:01:19] I'm Brian. And today we have Jai Jung Kim, who is the co-founder of Hydrant, which is a super cool company. Welcome, Jai.

Jai: [00:01:28] Thank you for having me.

Phillip: [00:01:30] Yes. Oh, thank you. I have to tell you, and this is in no way like a means of buttering you up, but when I mentioned Hydrant among the broader sort of work crew that I hang out with, everybody from the Crossfitter in the room to, you know, you're just average Joe, and one of the cooler people I know, we're all like, "Oh, my gosh, I love that product," and are like diehard devotees.

Jai: [00:01:58] Awesome.

Phillip: [00:01:58] So congratulations on creating a brand that people of all walks of life have come to love.

Jai: [00:02:04] Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that.

Phillip: [00:02:07] Yeah. For people who don't know what Hydrant is, maybe you can bring them into the know, Jai.

Jai: [00:02:13] Yeah. So Hydrant is an electrolyte powder. It's balanced with optimal balance of electrolytes, flavor with real fruit juice. And we have about six to seven grams of sugar compared to, if you were to think about traditional sports drink that has 36 grams of sugar. So it would be a healthier alternative to a traditional sports drink.

Brian: [00:02:37] Nice. That's awesome. Tell us a little bit about how you started Hydrant. What got you into this? Tell us your background and what got you hyped to make something like this.

Jai: [00:02:48] Yeah, it's a pretty crazy story and definitely an atypical story for a lot of startups. So I have a co-founder. I focused mostly on the finance side, growth side, and then the retail side. And my partner, who is an Oxford scientist, focused on product, supply chain and all that kind of stuff. And he and I actually didn't know each other completely until only three weeks before we signed the co-founder paper.

Phillip: [00:03:22] {laughter}

Jai: [00:03:22] Yeah. It was pretty wild. Basically my background is that I started my career as a consultant at McKinsey and spent the rest of my time in business in private equity. And from those jobs, I had really long hours and I used to rely completely on excessive caffeine or energy drinks. I used to drink, I think at peak, I used to drink seven cups of Americano a day. So it was pretty wild. And I felt like at some point I was just destroying my health just to get the energy level up and going to get through the day. And I was trying to find a healthier alternate to get that energy. And I met a friend who's really into body hacking, and he told me about potentially hacking hydration and how that has helped him cut a lot of caffeine. So I started to do a lot of research, tried all kinds of electrolyte products. Long story short, I was able to see the effect on getting a more natural energy, and I was able to cut down caffeine while feeling productive and energized. So I was like, "Hmm, this is a new way to get the energy. But how come all the products that I've tried are either too sweet, unhealthy, filled with sugar and that isn't really designed for everyday use case, where I can drink it everyday first thing in the morning to kind of start my day right?" So I started to treat this product for my own. And I was stuck with the product development phase because I have no science background. And that's when our mutual friend told us about each other, where John, he had the one product ready but didn't have the business skill set that I had. And I, you know, obviously don't have any product background. So it was sort of a perfect match. So, yeah. And I was three weeks into Wharton Business School MBA program and we sort of clicked and thought it was a no brainer. And we decided to start this business together. So I dropped out of business school and then got my tuition refunded and then invested into Hydrant.

Phillip: [00:05:38] {laughter}

Brian: [00:05:38] Wow. Wow.

Jai: [00:05:39] Yeah.

Brian: [00:05:39] That's bold.

Phillip: [00:05:39] I was gonna say, you're checking all the boxes. McKinsey, Wharton, direct to consumer business... Done.

Jai: [00:05:48] {laughter} Yeah.

Phillip: [00:05:51] Sounds like you're living the dream. We have some mutual friends, it sounds like, too, in the ecosystem, in the direct to consumer space and having interviewed a bunch folks.

Jai: [00:06:01] Sure.

Phillip: [00:06:01] Yeah. So you're in New York.

Jai: [00:06:05] That's right.

Phillip: [00:06:05] Yeah, and how... I just have to ask, because it would sound like we, you know, our time shifting this and have recorded this many months ago, like we're all still kind of dealing with quarantines and... Or as the cool kids are calling it, "the Q."

Jai: [00:06:21] Oh really? I never heard of that.

Phillip: [00:06:23] Oh, well, that's...

Jai: [00:06:25] I'm not the cool kid.

Phillip: [00:06:28] Neither am I. I was gonna say that I'm the furthest thing from the cool kid, but that's what they're saying. And I kind of like saving the syllables, so. But my question for you, Jai, would be. What has eCommerce been like in the last eight weeks for your brand? And tell us a little bit about like how you've kind of been keeping it together and keeping the team together. I'm assuming that you're still plugging along and business as usual.

Jai: [00:06:59] Yeah. Yeah. So a couple of points here, right. I think the first side is how does is the demand changing? And second is, how is it affecting the team and what are we doing about it? So I'll address both points. So starting from the demand side.... We're omni channel business. We are on our web site, drinkhydrant.com. And also on Amazon and in retailers. So on the retailers side, we did see a little bit of disruption. I think a lot of retailers started to cap foot traffic into their stores. And a lot of the retailers are postponing their discussions with emerging brands. So we're adjusting some of the retail strategy more focusing on like Q3, Q4 execution and then 2021. And instead, we're shifting a lot of the retail budget that we initially budgeted for Q2 budget for our web site and Amazon. On the eCommerce site, I think we were one of the few brands during the peak of COVID who had a surge in demand, especially on Amazon. And then it kind of went down and became neutralized to a normal state. So to be honest with an exception of that like two or three weeks, a period of COVID, intense COVID period, it's pretty normal for our site on the eComm. In terms of team, obviously everyone's working from home. So what we have done is to start implementing functional based daily accountability check-in. So every day in the morning, whether you're a growth team or ops team or a finance team, we'll have a group of virtual, whether Hangouts or a Zoom call, and they will discuss what needs to be done for the day and throughout the week and how is a progress update going, and they kind of raise red flags if things are going to be delayed or not. So it actually forced us to over communicate and hold a higher bar in communication. So there is no complaint.

Phillip: [00:09:16] Wow.

Brian: [00:09:16] Interesting. Yeah.

Phillip: [00:09:17] Congrats on that.

Brian: [00:09:18] Yeah, for sure. Have you gotten any feedback from your customers recently regarding, like, how they're using the products? I would imagine that it's probably shifted a bit with everyone, you know, sheltering in place and such. Is the way the product being used different now?

Jai: [00:09:42] It's a really good question because we have all kinds of customers, you know, ranging from, like you said in the beginning, the Crossfit proud who's drinking it for our workout purposes to who's drinking it every day first thing in the morning because they're feeling dehydrated. Or to people who are struggling to drink a lot of water because they don't like the taste or whatnot, and they drink Hydrant instead. So I think the crowd who are using it for regular workout purposes, they may have changed the consumption pattern a bit, but the rest of the crowd, I think they're using it still on a regular basis. And even on the those at Crossfit or athletes, I think a lot of them are doing in-home workouts, and they're drinking either before or after those in-home workouts.

Brian: [00:10:39] Yeah, that makes sense. And have you seen any challenges with the supply chain at all since this has happened? What's the process there? How are you creating the drink?

Jai: [00:10:54] Yes. So, you know, in the beginning, we were really concerned because I was hearing from other fellow founders left and right where their co packers and warehouses were shutting down, and we were creating backup options just to make sure that we're prepared for the worst. But thankfully, none of our vendors have delayed their production runs or are shutting down their operations. What we've seen is that it's mostly food companies that's been damaged the most or impacted the most. So I think for our vendors, it's been business as usual.

Brian: [00:11:37] That's good.

Phillip: [00:11:37] There's something business, I would say, a little bit superior to usual in that I was surprised yesterday to see a news story that Hydrant has raised 5.7 Million to expand it's Better for You Hydration Brand. Story on Forbes. Congratulations.

Brian: [00:11:54] Congrats. That's huge.

Jai: [00:11:57] Thank you. Thank you. We're excited. As a matter of fact, one of our investors actually was a guest on your show, Michelle from Lively. Just so I just wanted to give her a shout out.

Brian: [00:12:09] Yes. Love, Michelle. She's the best. Yes, she's been on a couple times.

Jai: [00:12:14] Yeah. She's awesome.

Phillip: [00:12:15] Yeah. I was stalking you on Crunchbase prior to this, and I was pretending like I didn't know. {laughter} It's listed that she was in the seed round coefficient capital leading. Looks like the series A.

Jai: [00:12:30] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:12:33] If you could tell us a little bit about that. What is it like to raise money right now?

Jai: [00:12:38] Yeah. Well the funny story is we actually closed a round in December of 2019. We were spending couple of months on thinking about how do we want to really refine our customer message. And then we want to be really careful with that, so it just happens to be that we delayed the announcement. But thank you for giving me the credit.

Phillip: [00:13:03] Yeah, sure. I mean it a lesser person would have just taken it. But I think it's interesting, though, so in December of 2019, things were really like... We had the lowest unemployment in 50 years in the United States. DTC brands hadn't hit the DTCpocalypse yet, like Brandless was still in business. Sort of a rosy time.

Jai: [00:13:29] Oh yeah.

Phillip: [00:13:29] Has your has your thinking shifted at all from that time of closing that round to now? And if so, tell us a little bit about how you've sort of, you know, how you intend to move forward or to double down on the things that are working.

Jai: [00:13:49] Yeah. You know, it's a really good question. I think literally when COVID was really breaking out, I think all investors in the VC communities were hitting up their portfolio companies, checking in to make sure they're all right. And then how was their plan and their metrics were affected? I think from our perspective, it's still hasn't changed much. I would probably say that the only thing that has changed is some of the timings with retail rollouts due to COVID. I know a lot of companies are kind of being on the defense mode. But I think from our side, we want to be on the offense mode while everyone is kind of being passive. But having said that, we are definitely prudent in thinking about risk versus reward in our decision making process. But when we see an opportunity, we're ready to strike and grow aggressively.

Brian: [00:14:49] That makes sense. Do you expect that you're going to be able to sort of push forward with those growth plans? I know that you had pretty aggressive growth plans coming out of the funding round. And do you feel like it's going to continue? What kind of data do you have that sort of points to this continued growth? More traffic on your site or?

Jai: [00:15:12] That's good. It's a great question. I think there are a couple of things that we look at. I think first and foremost, we're still looking really carefully on how is our retention metric being impacted? We think for our business, one of the biggest drivers of growth is retention. As we are acquiring a lot of customers to other subscribers or one time purchasers and then converting them into subscribers. And we're experiencing compounding growth from our customer build that we're building on. So that's one of the most important pieces. And I think the other metric that we look at is looking through all the acquisition channels that we're investing in... Are the metrics changing? And then based on the signals that we see, when we're re shifting our budget into other channels, that we see more efficiency, like how is a blended CAC holding? And then based on those like I think information will be able to decide whether we can meet our growth goals or not. But I think as of now, we believe we can.

Brian: [00:16:16] Where are you seeing success? Have you shifted budgets? I know that for a lot of brands there's been a huge like just a pullback on investment into ads and other digital marketing strategies. Which channels are you seeing success in right now?

Jai: [00:16:41] So I think Facebook, as usual, there is some volatility. Facebook is still fine, from my perspective. I think it's just a matter of like, how are you adjusting your budget based on the volatility? So that's one piece. I think podcasts is something that's pretty interesting. I think more and more people are listening to audios at home. I think there is an opportunity there. We haven't tested TV, but we're hearing from a lot of partners that there's a pretty deep, deep discount going on in TV, so we think there's an opportunity there as well.

Phillip: [00:17:18] Yeah, it's such a trip to see so many director to consumer brands hopping over to... And it's not just over the top or like digital television, it's like traditional television.

Jai: [00:17:28] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:17:30] Because television, I don't know, at least my own habits, I can't speak for anyone else... We have, you know, two, three TV's going all day long now, which has never happened before.

Jai: [00:17:40] Exactly.

Phillip: [00:17:41] And I think that there is a lot of passive consumption of media that is otherwise an active consumption channel. And that is kind of forcing ad costs lower. It presents a great opportunity for a brand like yours for at least from an awareness perspective. Have you ever done any other sort of out-of-home advertising at Hydrant?

Jai: [00:18:04] It's a good question. We have not. And the reason is we are waiting for our retail presence to expand a little bit more aggressively in order for us to really invest in those channels to make it work. Because I think a lot of time, like if people see, let's say, like a random billboard ad around Times Square or in Soho...

Phillip: [00:18:25] Subway or something like that...

Jai: [00:18:27] Subway or wherever the area would be. I think the maximum probability of success on that kind of advertising is maximized when they can see the product like almost right after them seeing the ad, and it's most likely that is going to be in those retailers around those parameters.

Phillip: [00:18:50] And I mean, not that people are spending much time out of home at the moment. I'm just curious about those channel investments. SMS, for what it's worth, seemed like it was a growing channel or a growing opportunity for DTCs. And, you know, much like Quibi... Do we call Quibi dead yet? Can we say rest in peace yet?

Jai: [00:19:14] I wonder how much they've spent so far.

Brian: [00:19:17] Oh, my gosh.

Phillip: [00:19:19] Oh my gosh. But it's built for a world... I see SMS marketing is built for a world where folks are on the go or like in between places. And it's just a great way to be in a channel that they're probably already in already. I'm curious how brands are faring with SMS investments while everybody stuck at home and, you know, are probably distracted by a bunch of other stuff, too. Have you experimented with SMS at all at Hydrants?

Jai: [00:19:44] Yeah. From our perspective, it's mostly a retention tool. Emails, SMS are mostly retention tool rather than acquisition tool. Although there is a merit to it. But from our perspective, we don't focus on it much.

Brian: [00:19:59] That's really interesting.

Phillip: [00:19:59] Sorry, Brian, I cut you off.

Brian: [00:20:01] Oh, no, I'm just going to ask about... So a lot of modern brands don't come out of the gate swinging as an omni channel brand, which I think is really awesome. It's really interesting. I think your product lends itself to having an omni channel strategy really well. It's shelf stable. It's you know, it's small. It's easily transportable, and it can actually fit into a lot of different contexts. What does your brick and mortar footprint look like right now? And as we come back, you know, to having the ability to shop in-store, how is it going to shift, do you think?

Jai: [00:20:44] Yeah, it's a it's a good question. So we really think about from a channel management perspective... So at a high level, we have our web site. We have Amazon. And we have retail channel. And each channel has pros and cons. I think for retail, it's profitable right out the gate if you do it right. There's no CAC. Right? As long as you're selling it to a store, there's no CAC. Right now we're in 47 stores and the Whole Foods Market in the Northeast and couple of other independents. And then we'll be announcing a couple of other major retail accounts in June, July and September. So we'll be expanding a lot more aggressively. In terms of Amazon, it's also a pretty profitable channel based on how you're crafting your marketing strategy on Amazon. So from our perspective, Amazon and retail are both cash generating machines. And for our eCommerce channel, we are really focusing on acquiring subscribers to really compound the growth. So I think if you are managing each of the channels right, so that there are there are synergies in between, I think it's really important to be an omni channel. One last thing... Being in retail actually helps in scaling Amazon. A lot of times people will try the product in the retail setting, and a lot of time there'll be a split between people going back to the store to buy the product and there's other group of people who will be just looking up on Amazon and buying the product.

Brian: [00:22:27] Yes. It is interesting, like we've talked to a few different businesses recently who recognize the power of being able to go through, you know, through traditional retail channels. I think I could see your product doing really, really well even right now in like Kroger's and Whole Foods and so on.

Jai: [00:22:54] Totally.

Brian: [00:22:54] It's awesome.

Phillip: [00:22:54] Yeah, there's an interesting, like playbook there. I'd love your opinion on this, Jai, and I hope you're not offended by me mentioning a competitor.

Jai: [00:23:04] No worries.

Phillip: [00:23:05] As an endurance athlete, you see these ambassador led brands like NUUN or Tailwind or something that I think purport to have similar benefits or properties as Hydrant. I would say that you have the sexier brand among all of them. But, you know, in that space, it's very ambassador led... A lot of like one to one, I wouldn't call it an affiliate sales, but there's sort of an influencer model that's leveraged. Is that something that you was like an early stage strategy for Hydrant or is that something that is like sort of a product of its time that's maybe an aged playbook now?

Jai: [00:23:48] Yeah, it's something that we thought about. I think one of the reasons why we didn't lean heavily into that, at least in the early, early stage, is that we didn't want to be branded as sports only brand. I think for NUUN, like you talked about, it resonates a lot with those endurance athletes. Although because we're an electrolyte product, a lot of athletes use our product, we wanted to make sure that we're known as a lifestyle brand. Where we recommend people to drink this Hydrant first thing in the morning, at least like one pack a day, incorporate it into your workout routine. Please do so. But we wanted it to be more of a daily ritual thing. So that was actually one of the major reasons why we didn't really pursue that from brand positioning purposes. But having said that, it's something that we can definitely look into. I think in order for you to execute that properly, it requires a lot of energy and dedication. So I think from our perspective, we're looking at all of different kinds of the acquisition channels. And we are running like math analysis to see where we're getting the biggest bang for the buck. And we're really prioritizing channel activation based on that process. So we'll probably get there. But I think we're first prioritizing the ones that it's going to move the biggest needle.

Brian: [00:25:13] It's a really interesting question. Let alone the micro influencer level. I feel like your product would lend itself really well to like a celebrity almost endorsement. Have you considered that strategy as well?

Jai: [00:25:28] Yeah, it's something that we're exploring. So one of the co-investors is Rx3 ventures. It's a fund base out in California founded by Aaron Rodgers. A lot of their LPs are athletes and actors and actresses, so we are exploring how we can work with their LPs to promote the business.

Brian: [00:25:53] That's cool, that's cool. I could see, given that such a broad range of customer that you could reach with this... I mean, I remember back when  SodaStream...

Jai: [00:26:05] Oh, yeah. Crazy.

Brian: [00:26:06] Worked with Jennifer Garner. It was there was really effective at the time, just given where we were at as a culture. But I think that, you know, your brain is much more well-positioned for the consumer of today. We talk a lot about the psychographic that we call CARLY. Can't Afford Real Life Yet. And I just think about the Hydrant esthetic and what the goal of Hydrant is, and I could see it appealing really well to that sort of broader next group of consumers. It is interesting. Back to sort of the athlete specific channel. Have you thought about potentially even expanding your product line to get more targeted? Or are you going to stick kind of broad consumer for now?

Jai: [00:26:55] Yes, John is definitely working on more new product innovations. And our hope is to throughout time with more diverse product portfolio, we'll be covering more specific communities as well.

Brian: [00:27:10] Very cool.

Phillip: [00:27:10] There's an interesting discussion, not to take us way off base here, and I appreciate you just being so open to just handle a barrage of questions. A lot of conversation is being had right now, especially among the enterprise set, who have traditional wholesale businesses and rely on distributors as they are trying to build out direct to consumer teams. There's a lot of reliance at that scale on agencies. Right? Externalizing a lot of capabilities or, you know, bringing that stuff out of house. How much of that have you relied on? Do you think it's a differentiator among the digitally native set to in-house every bit of that? Or for founders to engage in the things that are brand story centric? Tell me a little bit about like team makeup and how you've approach that and when to decide to keep something in-house versus sub it out.

Jai: [00:28:08] Yeah, it's a good question. The way we're thinking about in-house versus outsource, we really think about what is the most important function that's going to move the biggest needle? And then making sure that for those functions we're doing it in-house. I think for a very long time even though I don't have any Facebook marketing experience, I really forced myself to learn Facebook marketing through different advisors and friends and try to keep that in-house. We had agencies in a very early stage, but quickly, you know, I forced myself to learn and just do everything in-house. I think it's just basically a matter of priority. So what are the functions that's going to drive the biggest revenue or what are the functions that's going to be the most important driver that's going to get you to the next milestone to get your business to the next level, whether it's for funding or something else. So we really prioritize from that perspective. So in terms of our current team structure based on that, we have a growth team, Head of Acquisition Manager and an eCommerce Manager. Our eCommerce manager mostly focuses on the web infrastructure of it. So we do everything growth in-house. We don't really outsource anything. And on the product and supply chain side, we have my co-founder who is coming up with all these R&D processes to develop our new product. And we have our ops guy who is managing our supply chain. We do have a co packer, but he runs in. So really, including customer service, we don't really outsource that either. I don't think we really outsource that many different things.

Phillip: [00:30:08] Wow. Yeah. I think that that sounds about right from the other brands we've spoken to is that there's sort of this idea of the differentiator is having that like internal team that focuses really only and very specifically on your story and executing on your strategy. And it's just interesting. Five years ago, even maybe even two or three years ago, it would be like, "OK, well, let's go get this Shopify agency. OK, let's get this branding agency. Let's go get this, you know, paid media company. Let's go get this in a logistics firm." And it's like pretty much, you know, at the end of the day, I'm not really sure what you what you own or what you control internally. You have a bunch of project managers and, you know, that's about it. I'm saying more and more brands are relying on themselves for that sort of capability, which I find really fascinating.

Jai: [00:31:09] Yeah, I think it's because ability to survive in a startup environment or be successful is also dependent on how agile you are. And the more you outsource, you're learning is going to be slower. No matter how awesome the agency is, they're just not going to care about your business as much as you do. So they're not going to check your metric, you know, as frequently as you would, or they're definitely not going to spend more time on your account than you would. So I think it's really comes down to that.

Phillip: [00:31:46] That's so true. If you had to, just kind of being respectful your time here, and this and just absolutely brilliant. Jai, I'm curious if you had to give some advice to other operators in this time, if you had to even maybe just give some advice about the journey of getting to where you are as a brand, what would that be?

Jai: [00:32:10] Sure. I think two things comes to my mind, and one is around people and another one is around decision making. So I'll start with people. We used to be obsessed with industry experience, like relevant industry experience. When we were first starting out, we thought, "Oh, like, let's find someone who was a CEO or who had extensive experience in this beverage company, because that's going to be our silver bullet to knowing all the playbooks." We couldn't have been wrong enough. I think a lot of times you think like having the relevant experience or that having the expertise will solve everything. That's definitely not the case. I think what happens is a lot of time if you bring someone who is truly an expert or who is really experienced in one field, to them there's always a set of answers and nothing else is a possibility. But from our perspective, what we really care about is that you're smart, you're hardworking, you're curious, and you enjoy solving problems. That matters the most. And then you have this, like beginners mindset so that there's infinite number of possibilities. So you're really enjoying solving these problems with us. So if you think of... As a matter of fact, within our entire team, there's only one person who comes from food and beverage and the rest of our team doesn't have any of the directly correlated industry experience.

Phillip: [00:33:46] Wow.

Jai: [00:33:46] Second piece of advice would be to not get too hung up on the old playbooks. Like you will often hear people say, you know, X, Y, Z crushed for them. A, B, C crushed for them. There is no silver bullet. Once again, you wasted a lot of time and resources chasing those silver bullets in the beginning and when you're a startup, time and resources matter so much. And you can waste a lot of money and time chasing those silver bullets.

Brian: [00:34:25] Really good advice.

Phillip: [00:34:27] That's phenomenal advice and incredibly evergreen. I think that transcends any moment. I find that so interesting. I almost have to ask you from a leadership perspective how do you instill that? You know, if you have folks that been on your team for many years, is there a danger of kind of becoming fixed in the "this is how Hydrant does things?"

Jai: [00:34:52] Oh totally.

Phillip: [00:34:52] Do you feel like there is a risk?

Jai: [00:34:54] Yeah. So what we do is we make it very clear what our culture values are. So one of the core values that we talk about is growth mindset, making sure that no one is thinking anything in fixed mindset. First step is to make it really clear and everyone is consistent in thinking about what are our core values. Second piece is we do a regular check in on how we're doing in terms of living up to those cultural values. So we start with the executive team and then each executive leader will have functional group sessions to make sure like how they're feeling in terms of how we're doing with each of the values based on a score. Like one out of 10. And have a transparent discussion around like, "Hey, like we talked about accountability. How do you think we're we're scoring right now?" And stuff like that. And then based on the feedback, we have a pretty tactical plan on how to work on our issues and go forward.

Phillip: [00:36:05] Well, I feel like I need to drink some Hydrant after this one.

Brian: [00:36:13] So good.

Phillip: [00:36:13] I feel like I got a workout. That was great. What an awesome thing. Where can people go buy Hydrant?

Jai: [00:36:19] So you can go to drinkhydrant.com to either subscribe or try one time through one time purchase option or go to Amazon and type Hydrant, or go to Whole Foods in New York City or New Jersey, Connecticut and buy Hydrant.

Phillip: [00:36:38] So cool.

Brian: [00:36:39] Awesome.

Phillip: [00:36:40] Jai, thank you so much for your transparency. Thank you for joining us today.

‍