The Creative and Relational Come Together

Phillip: [00:00:14] Hello and welcome to Future Commerce, the podcast about the next generation of commerce. I'm Phillip.

Brian: [00:01:49] And I'm Brian, and today we have with us, Rosa Hu, VP of Product Marketing at YOTPO. Welcome, Rosa.

Rosa: [00:01:57] Thank you both so much for having me.

Phillip: [00:01:59] There's so many amazing things to be talking about about YOTPO and this particular moment in commerce. You guys just had a a really big announcement, which I think we're going to cover. But before we get there, tell us a little bit about you. What do you do at YOTPO?

Rosa: [00:02:16] Yeah, of course. Well I run product marketing at YOTPO, and it is one of the greatest positions. I absolutely love my job. We're kind of that intersection between sales, marketing, and product, and we kind of keep everything moving. So we're a very central hub to the organization. But yeah, that's a little bit about what we do in product marketing, but a little bit more about myself, I guess. My background has been largely focused in eCommerce and customer experience in the MarTech space. And that passion for MarTech goes kind of back to a startup that I joined eight to 10 years ago called SeeWhy, where we sold shopping cart abandonment solutions, which is now a totally commoditized, no brainer solution that's included in everything, including what YOTPO does. So, yeah, that was how I got started in startups.

Phillip: [00:03:15] Wow. It's so funny. We just had a guest on the show who was talking about their start in a similar vein and that he spent his early career at Endeca. And it's like back in the day, back in the old days, you had to build the stuff from scratch and there were very few choices to implement these, you know, things that are now commonplace. And how spoiled are we all now, right?

Rosa: [00:03:41] We certainly make it easier for marketers today.

Phillip: [00:03:44] It's true. It's so true. Brian and I go back quite a long ways with YOTPO, back before it was a platform for many types of solutions. I mean, it's been years. Eight, nine years.

Brian: [00:04:00] Years. I remember being in a conference with the five star kid T-shirts like the original, original YOTPO swag. I was there for that.

Phillip: [00:04:11] Do you have that T-shirt or do you have that swag still, Brian?

Brian: [00:04:14] I might still somewhere. I have to go look. My kids love those shirts. Those are good ones.

Phillip: [00:04:20] There's been no IPO announced yet on the horizon, although one has to assume it's coming eventually for, you know, a company of the sort of scale and the meteoric rise, I think, is what I was asked to say. Just kidding. But the trajectory that YOTPO is on and the growth is just something I think that will make that T-shirt worth something in the future. Brian, you gotta find it.

Brian: [00:04:45] Yeah, a little branded merch. I mean...

Phillip: [00:04:48] That's a whole thing.

Brian: [00:04:49] It's like a whole thing. And it was like back in the day, like branded merch wasn't what it is today. That was really, really good merch. It was like ahead of its time, I feel like.

Phillip: [00:04:59] We're talking about, you know, a time before Rosa was there. Speaking of... Sorry, we forgot you were on the show.

Brian: [00:05:06] We just love YOTPO, yeah.

Rosa: [00:05:07] I am so glad to hear it. You know, I love it.

Phillip: [00:05:11] Congrats on the announcement with Shopify. There's a strategic partnership that you have entered into, and I think that that comes with a new investment as well. Tell us a little bit about that announcement.

Rosa: [00:05:22] Yeah. Thank you. Well, this this partnership with Shopify, it's like it's a really big deal for both companies, and it's definitely one that we celebrated heavily here at YOTPO. Because, as you kind of mentioned, YOTPO and Shopify are longtime partners. And I mean, like back in, back from like the basement or garage founding days, you know. {laughter} That's how long, that's how long term the relationship has been. But yeah, that's about like what, ten years in the making or so? And from the very, very beginning, our CEO, Tomer, and the Shopify executive teams have shared just one common belief, and that's we're both in service to the merchants, right?  [00:06:07]For the future of commerce to thrive brands must be able to own those direct relationships with their customers. And that's the vision that we set out on and that's the mission that we are trying to achieve and still continue to achieve today. [00:06:21]

Brian: [00:06:22] I feel like this is so aligned. Shopify is saying this. You're saying this, there are other partners of yours in the space that are saying the exact same thing. And a lot of this, I think, is like, it's such an important part of where commerce is at right now as we're about to go to a cookieless future. And customers are are finding more affinity with the brands that they have and understanding why they should order directly from a brand as opposed to from someone else. I mean, I may be like too far into inside baseball here now, but I'm hearing people say, "Oh, I should have ordered that directly from the brand instead of on Amazon because I want to support the brand." To me, at this moment, that message really resounds. It's a good place to start this next level of relationship with Shopify. So as you said, you've been a partner with them for a long time. What's this next level look like right now, and what's your new go to market ahead?

Rosa: [00:07:33] Yeah, that's a great question. So I think one of the most exciting parts about this partnership is the fact that we will become kind of these early launch partners for Shopify development features, which means that both companies will be working on joint roadmaps that we have visibility into what's coming first and how we can make sure that YOTPO is supporting everything, the newest and greatest from Shopify. So it's that exclusive, first access kind of first to market innovations that we will be able to develop and make sure that it connects and works really, really well with Shopify.

Phillip: [00:08:12] It's so necessary too because I see so many... Having been around eCommerce for as long as I have, because I'm an old guy in the ecosystem now and one of these days we're going to produce a supercut of the show where I've been saying for six years that I'm the old guy. But I think there's an interesting challenge in a partner ecosystem, a technology partner ecosystem, especially now that it's all SaaSified, where not having an insight into the product development roadmap puts you at odds with your channel partners and it puts you at, you know, you're not necessarily always aligned. And in some cases, platforms can be criticized as cannibalizing their partner ecosystem by using them for R&D and bringing a lot of those functionalities and features into the fold and kind of making it as the baseline platform experience. Because, you know, one way to grow or one way to retain your customer base if you operate a platform is to provide more feature and functionality for the same price over time. And the thing I'm most impressed by here is how intent Shopify seems on trying not to do that. A lot of these strategic partnerships actually come with Shopify putting, you know, its money where its mouth is and helping to invest in its partners. And so not just in data transparency or roadmap transparency or product development collaboration, it's "Well, we're all going to win together. And to do so, it's going to require us not just to be transparent and be partners. It's going to require our investment too."

Rosa: [00:09:53] Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think Shopify trusts YOTPO to do what we're really, really good at doing, and we trust Shopify to continue being that amazing platform that they have been for a lot of our brands.

Brian: [00:10:08] Yeah, and the investment, like to your point, Phillip, I think the investment sort of gives that teeth. It's putting your money where your mouth is, like you're always going to work as partners when you have that level of investment placed in you. And I think there's a lot of platforms out there that have given lip service to being partners. I feel like Shopify is saying, "No, this is way more than lip service. This is the real deal." And also the length of contract term is amazing. It was seven years?

Rosa: [00:10:45] Yeah, that's right.

Brian: [00:10:46] Yeah, that's incredible. So seven years out, you're going to be working together to not only integrate YOTPO's feature set deeper into the Shopify platform, but also to be doing some feature development together and have like that early look and early vision. What are some of the things that you're thinking about long term, that Shopify and YOTPO have the opportunity to go build together?

Rosa: [00:11:13] Yeah, of course. There's already a lot happening in the background today from both companies to make sure we are staying true to the promise we're making to the merchants, right? So not only deeper and native integrations, but also kind of taking where we see commerce, which is an element of commerce that I think and marketing where empathy comes into play a lot and we really want to bake that into our technology. And it's like we kind of mentioned. It's never been more important to truly understand your customers and their wants, their needs, expectations and also engaging them appropriately, based on those signals. So this is how, together with Shopify, we can really inspire that long lasting brand loyalty for our merchants, and that's where our heads at right now.

Phillip: [00:12:09] Let me ask a hard question, because I'm going to get some angry DMs and emails if I don't ask it. And you feel free to yell at me. It's OK, Rosa, you can yell at me. The hard question here is that one of the ways to ensure long term partnership with the merchant and loyalty is to sort of take stock of the pricing in the ecosystem. And you look at other competitors out there who, you know, ostensibly are offering a similar at least one of the products in the product suite, they're offering at a lower price. You have people like Moiz Ali who are just relentlessly, you know, have just decided that they don't like YOTPO and they're going to try to tear it down for whatever reason. Who knows? I mean, the guy had a nine figure exit with a deodorant company. You'd think he'd have other things to do. But I digress. So I find it an interesting time. It's like part of that is also looking at the product suite and saying, "How do we provide more value and greater functionality over time, while either maintaining the price or finding it more competitively priced in the marketplace?" I'm curious if you thought about that at all and how you address the naysayers.

Rosa: [00:13:15] Oh my gosh. Every day we think about how we can provide more value and how we can address the pricing issues and the pricing feedback that we get from our customers. And you're absolutely right. We are adjusting the way we're thinking about packaging. How do we add more features? How do we make sure that they see the added value of having service being baked in? Having a dedicated customer service manager who's helping them brainstorm how they can optimize and how they can make their solutions work for them, right? Things that they're not thinking about. That's not something that other companies really offer. And I think that's where that like white glove service that YOTPO really stands behind comes into play and that is added into the cost. But we are thinking about our VSBs and our smaller merchants, and we hear them. We really want them to know that we hear them. So that means providing 24-7 customer service support through chat, which I don't think many other competitors have that's so readily available, which means you get immediate answers. In the middle of the night, if you need something, you can ask us and we can help you. So those are all the things that we're trying to not only adjust pricing so that it looks and sounds better and feels better, but also making sure that there's a lot of added benefits that we're providing our merchants so that they can do their business better. We're also really, really focused on programs such as YOTPO Grows, which is taking these small businesses and really helping them and giving them a 360 view of all the marketing tools within their stack that can help them grow their business and accelerate their business. So YOTPO hears these people, and, you know, our heart breaks every time we hear something like that. But we are responding to it and we are investing in this as a very, very top of mind topic for us.

Phillip: [00:15:26] I'm looking forward to when PR tells me I have to strip the section out of the show. I do think it's important, though, because there's, you know, it's timely where you have all of these sort of one click setup. Reviews is usually the product that everybody, you know, gets thorny around.

Rosa: [00:15:42] That's right.

Phillip: [00:15:42] And I think that having worked in highly regulated areas in the past is, you know, I spent part of my career in startups, in the wellness industry and regulation, health claims, these are all things that you know, especially as eCommerce is such early adopters and rapid adopters of software, especially those that where they sense that they can have sort of like feature arbitrage reviews, especially is so important in the way that you're convincing a customer that you will do right by them and that you'll deliver on your promise. And we've said it many times here, but it just it's a thing that when you're ingesting a product in your body, you need additional assurances to be able to know that it's safe and it's effective and that there's... You want to know that it's worked for other people. And at the same time, you can't allow customers in UGC and reviews to make health claims on your behalf. And I just don't understand, you know, I think it's one thing to sort of criticize a software product. Sorry. I'll get off the soapbox in a second, but I don't understand the criticism. The criticism in the marketplace of a software product, specifically on your own myopic view of one or two, you know, standouts in the marketplace who have outsized criticism only because of their size and scale. And I think it's really myopic to think of, you know, YOTPO in particular. But there's Adobe gets this criticism, too, as just one thing like, "Oh, YOTPO is a reviews engine." Well, obviously, you're not paying attention because it's not. And if you did reviews and you were in a regulated industry, you'd understand exactly what they do. That's a little different. Ok, I'm an apologist officially now. Please, Brian, rescue me. I don't know how to... I don't know how to get out of this.

Brian: [00:17:34] Well, there is something that Rosa was saying earlier that I do want to talk about immensely, and I think it does come back to like that sort of value that's coming with the platform. And that is the focus around loyalty and retention. Because I think Rosa, that's what you said that you were going to really focus on with Shopify. And I think that's super, super powerful given given your loyalty suite, given the breadth of offerings that you have to acquire [00:18:06]. The fact that loyalty is actually going to be a big focus is very exciting because I think you do have some incredible acquisition tools. Obviously, reviews can be an acquisition tool, SMS can be an acquisition tool, UGC can be an acquisition tool, but when you start to bring all these things together, you start to actually think about community and relationships. And those two things have a lot to do with retention. [00:18:33] And so I would love to hear your view of the role of the loyalty features set in conjunction with the other things that you have as a part of the suite, because I see the value of YOTPO, and Phillip is exactly to your point, being in the connection between the different parts of the platform. And so how is that coming together and what does that mean for your customers and their customers?

Rosa: [00:19:06] Yeah, absolutely. So at YOTPO, we strategically created our platform to strengthen relationships between brand and consumer, and we do that through engagement, community advocacy, and retention. And our goal is to help brands bring customers back to purchase again and again and again, right? So that means all of our solutions have to work in concert to bring them back. That means they're playing off each other. There's no kind of handoff between reviews to SMS to, you know, it's not a clear cut. It's everything is kind of interwoven. And you know, for example, if after a customer purchases from a brand for the first time, we'll send out one review request, right? That's a very simple use case. But let me reiterate that reviewers are not just reviewers, they are your best targets for customer engagement. They are the ones who either love your brand so much that they should be recruited into your loyalty program or they're the ones who cared enough to leave you critical feedback, and then brands can take that opportunity to turn them into fans somehow if it's possible. But they're the ones who are engaging with you. They're actively saying, "Hey, raising my hand, I'm right here. Pay attention to me. Here's why I care." And so once they leave a review, you let them know that, let's say they've already earned some points in their loyalty profile, which they haven't created yet. So would they like to sign up officially? Then they joined the rewards program, let's say, and then you can send them tailored, personalized engagement through SMS with a promotion. And once they purchase again and you keep moving them up these tiers within your program and you can continue asking for reviews or UGC to aid in product discovery for your new prospects. And this cycle just kind of is very self-sustaining. And listen, [00:21:09] we know that there's so much on an eCommerce marketer's plate today. They have to care about everything and build programs for every part of the journey, so to speak. Awareness, consideration, advocacy, purchase, retention. There's so much they need to do. What we're saying to our eCommerce marketers is, "Listen, we can help you with this and automate it so that it's smart and that it's self-sustaining and that you can bring your brand's voice to it, but let us help you bring the customers back. Let us help you strengthen those relationships. [00:21:45]

Phillip: [00:26:19] It's funny because there are so many other platforms in the ecosystem that call themselves customer journey orchestration platforms, but don't actually have any tactical interaction, like there's no customer interaction, there's literally just planning. And I think that there's something really powerful here, which is because there is so much feature and functionality, and let's face it, it exists because customers have expectations that it exist. These are all points of interaction that a customer desires to have, so along that customer journey, this is in a prior era, you would have probably orchestrated this type of a platform, if you will, by bringing together a bunch of software that doesn't integrate. And at least in what YOTPO has is it's an ecosystem. And, you know, coming back to the Shopify point, the worst experiences of Shopify is when you have each of these like discrete points of customer interaction that are just apps that have stale roadmaps that you've one click installed and none of them speak to each other. And trying to manage that and its impact on your site, its impact on the customer experience performance even, those are all really difficult to manage and become a full time job for a marketer. And rather than actually utilize the tool, you're now managing how the tool is impacting all the other tools. And so I think that there's a lot of just focus, you get to a certain scale as a merchant and there's a lot of focus that you need to try to work on the business rather than work in the business. And I think that's where consolidation of platforms and sort of the rolling up of feature and functionality and customer journey orchestration is really important. I'm surprised that so many, that there aren't more YOTPOs in the world because it seems like such a no brainer to bring all of these different pieces of customer experience together,

Brian: [00:28:30] Yeah. Not to mention the service layer. You add a service layer on top of that and it's like, oh my gosh, it's like a no brainer to see this type of stuff rolled up.

Rosa: [00:28:39] Yeah, and we're continuing to innovate, right? We have things in the roadmap, things in the horizon that will continue to add towards that goal of strengthening relationships. So that's all really, really exciting for us. But you're right. It isn't especially tailored for like, you know, the VSBs and SMBs. We don't really see that a lot. You really see that more in the enterprise world where you can then really talk about the value of your CDP and understanding your customers and all of that, speaking from my SAP Enterprise days background, but you don't really see that in the smaller DTC space, and I think that's going to have to shift because eventually you're absolutely right, yeah, you get all these great point solutions and then all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, wait, the data is siloed. There's no easy way to connect that. How do I see a full picture? How do I make sure that I'm understanding my customers fully within that view?" So all of that stuff is going to come at them pretty hard and fast.

Phillip: [00:29:46] It's really interesting to see, too, how the ecosystem has matured together to sort of be interoperable. I make a joke sometimes that, you know, if it ends with an O in E commerce, then it probably works together, you know, YOTPO, Klaviyo and Nosto. And there's a really interesting, it's not even interesting. I mean, it's like an incredibly powerful suite that you can build just by having this interoperability and it feels very cooperative in the ecosystem, which is another thing that I think it's a very different time right now in eCommerce, which feels very cooperative and not necessarily competitive. Sorry, Brian, I feel like I was talking over you.

Brian: [00:30:34] No, no, no. I think to add on like it's I feel like to the point of the report we just released, Nine by Nine, DTC all growed up. We're at that moment where DTC needs this level of tools. I mean, and obviously like, that's what Enterprise has been saying to them all along. You can only get so far on this. But I feel like we're entering a moment now where there's a graduation happening and these are the tool sets that are necessary to address customers at the next level. And so maturing of toolset is like it's an obvious and you just sat it earlier, Phillip, like, how is there not more of this happening already?

Phillip: [00:31:25] I don't know. I have no idea. Rosa, how is this not happening?

Brian: [00:31:29] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:31:30] Yeah. It's an unanswerable question, to be honest with you. What is, you know, if you had to sort of think to yourself, Rosa, about the past evolution, what does the future look like for a digital marketer? And maybe you can think about the answer to the question in this way, a lot of the tool suites today seem to be focused around automation and doing more with less. But let's say that the future of eCommerce is such that, you know, you have some really outsized organizations that are really growing by leaps and bounds, and they're starting to staff up. How do you grow into it? Does the value prop of do more with less and automate more still hold true? And what does an organization with a few more able bodies, what are they able to do in marketing automation context and customer journey orchestration?

Rosa: [00:32:28] Yeah, that's a great question. You know, obviously automation has come really far since where it's been. But, you know, I think there's an aspect of automation that is just left too [00:32:44]... We kind of trust automation too much or we rely on it too much and we forget the element of empathy or kind of putting yourself in the shoes of the customer. You think you set up a campaign and you're good to go right? And I don't mean that eCommerce marketers like to set and forget, but it is something that could happen. And I think with more people and with more hands on deck, you can really think about these programs and be a lot more thoughtful, [00:33:11] right? So when when we talk about how do you engage with SMS, I mean, with mobile marketing and text messaging, you really have to be very, very, very thoughtful. This is kind of the fact that SMS is the open rate is at ninety eight percent. You don't want to mess that up. And every message is extremely, extremely important because you could really risk making your customer very angry or annoying them, right?

Brian: [00:33:41] Yes.

Rosa: [00:33:42] Being thoughtful, I think, is so important when it comes to coming up with a strategy for your entire marketing automation stack. And again, I think it starts with empathy, right? It starts with putting the customer in the center. It's not about just you needing to get your job done, doing a check off your list. It's really about understanding them and having the right tools to help you understand them so that you can actually put them first and put their needs first. And only then can you really engage them according to their preferences and where they are right? And that means giving the customer a lot of choice in shopping how they please, giving them flexibility, being honest with them, keeping them updated. Standing up for something and showing that you're a brand that reflects their values, they want to see that today and they want to see that mutual value exchange. And if you understand that, then you are so much, you're going to be so much better off when you're setting these programs and using the tools to help you build empathy rather than relying on the tools to just engage for you.

Brian: [00:35:00] This is interesting because to me, what you're describing is I feel like a new kind of marketer. It's a different skill set than potentially we've seen in the past with digital marketing that has been incredibly focused on hooks and metrics and clicks and conversions. It's not to say that those things don't matter, but what we're talking about...

Phillip: [00:35:21] Fads and trends and tactics.

Brian: [00:35:23] Exactly. Yeah, exactly. We're talking, though, about a marketer that's probably one of two things. One, would be someone who's extremely relationship oriented and the other would be someone who's incredibly good at producing engaging content. That's more of like, it's almost like writers, you know what I mean?  [00:35:45]The creative and the relational need to come together. And that is the new marketer. [00:35:51]

Rosa: [00:35:53] Yeah, I agree. And a new marketer will focus on loyalty, right? I think there's a lot of, you know, everyone's like, "Oh, acquisition, acquisition, acquisition." Yes, acquisition is really, really, really important. But it's also the truth and the fact that it's getting a lot harder and it's getting more expensive. And with the new privacy laws and, you know, Apple releases another iOS release and everyone in the industry, you know, freaks out about it because these do limit and obviously protect consumer privacy. But I think coming out of that, "OK, I need acquisition," to "Hey, I already have some really great customers and fans and people who love us," and focusing on how to keep them happy and how to engage them more and make them better customers and return customers. That's going to be the new formula to win, especially since all of that data is part of what you're collecting. It's zero party data. It's first party data. It's not relying on cookies or hoping that your ads are reaching customers now or that your emails are being opened because you no longer maybe have that transparency anymore. So yeah, that's also I think the shift in mindset is also super important here.

Brian: [00:37:17] Yeah, I think also something that comes out of this is, you know, we talk about acquisition, but what about acquisition through loyalty? I mean, one of the absolute best ways to acquire new customers is to have someone who is a fan be the one that introduces them to the product, to the brand.

Rosa: [00:37:39] Absolutely.

Brian: [00:37:39] And so by creating, by focusing on loyalty and creating an incredible experience for those that are a part of the brand's circle of influence of the community already, the odds of them introducing new people are much, much, much higher. And you can actually help foster that by giving them ways to share and promote and it gets back to that cycle that you talked about at the beginning of the show, which is what your product is created for.

Rosa: [00:38:12] That's right. Absolutely. 100 percent agree. That's what referral is there for. You know, that's what reviews and UGC is there for. It's to help your customers become your voice, and you amplify through them. Absolutely.

Brian: [00:38:29] So looking ahead, you know, we've seen a lot of consumer behavior shifts. I mean, I'm going to say it, but like we just went through the great accelerator, the pandemic, right? And so things have changed a lot. We're stepping into a weird, new abnormal right now, and it's super confusing and things are getting relocked down and then the might back open back up. But consumer behavior has made very, very big shifts, some of which is clearly sticky, some of which has kind of faded away. But as we kind of enter into stores again and back into the IRL and are starting to work our way through this new world, the role of the digital marketer, not only is it shifting in terms of skill set with the type of skills you need for your relationship and creative, but it's also spanning the digital and physical. And so what do you see ahead as some of the new features that are going to be necessary, both in terms of the type of digital marketer that we're going to need to hire or a marketer we're going to need to hire, and in the types of features that we're going to need to address this new world?

Rosa: [00:39:56] Yeah, I think one thing is for sure. Even if your customers are visiting you in-store, you better make sure you can connect that information somehow or that visit somehow to their online presence, so that when maybe there are only shopping once a month now in store and then spending the other time online, looking at it, looking at your products online and all that. Tying those experiences together is obviously very, very important, and a way to do that is going to be through mobile. So whether it's having your loyalty program kind of accessible throughout the store so that customers can scan a barcode and get to their program and make sure that they're logging the things that they're trying, the things that they're buying, that they're getting rewarded, they're getting incentive or free samples or whatever it is for that visit. That's going to be really, really crucial. And I think it's really, really funny that I read somewhere that QR codes have made a huge comeback, which no other tech tech has benefited more than QR codes, where now you're like scanning menus and like, so people are getting used to it again. So [00:41:22] if people are getting used to it, then utilize it. Make sure your loyalty program is everywhere within store. Make sure that you are understanding what they're buying, how they're buying it, and if something is out of stock in store, how do you get it to them quickly online? So it's just about tying the experience together because we can definitely bet that online is not going anywhere. The acceleration for eCommerce is only going to keep going and that just means that you need to be able to connect everything better so that you understand your consumers better. [00:41:59]

Phillip: [00:42:01] Well, I mean, I can't think of a better way to leave you with the last word. I think that that really sums things up. If I was in the position and I'm not anymore, you know these these days, I'm on a different side of the industry. I talk a lot about eCommerce and I certainly play a strategy role. But if I was in the seat driving an eComm brand every day, I would feel very confident having the team at YOTPO on my side. What an awesome time for you to be partnering with other organizations and help drive customer experience forward for everybody. Where can people learn more about YOTPO, Rosa?

Rosa: [00:42:44] Yeah. Visit our website. Attend some webinars. You know, we have lots of information that's available to customers, new and current. So, yeah, we're looking forward to letting you know whatever we can about eCommerce, marketing, and passing that expertise on.

Phillip: [00:43:06] How cool. Well, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for coming on the show.

Rosa: [00:43:09] Thank you.

Phillip: [00:43:09] And thank you all for listening to Future Commerce. You can find more episodes of this show and all of our properties, Step by Step and a new show coming very soon, over at FutureCommerce.fm or wherever podcasts are found. You can also find our newest annual report. It's called Nine by Nine. It's 30 plus pages of nine trends that brands are adopting, nine strategies that they've adopted to connect with customers and, I believe, change commerce forever. It's eighty one brands that are changing our world. It's called Nine by Nine. You can get a copy of that report for free over at NinebyNine.report. And hey, why don't you take a second too and subscribe to our newsletter and our online community here at Future Commerce. You can do that at FutureCommerce.fm/Subscribe, and you'll never miss another report or podcast that's coming out to keep you in the know and to help make you a better marketer, make you a little more empathetic to the customer, and maybe discover some more things like YOTPO that might be able to help you move the needle in your business. Thank you so much for listening to Future Commerce, and we'll see you next time.

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