The Lover’s Drive

Helen: [00:00:00] We all love wearing Frownies and we're all into the skincare thing. But really it's that community and that feeling of somebody cheering you on that keeps you going. We all need that accountability and that support to stay consistent with things that are important to us. And yeah, I value that so much.

Kristen: [00:00:26] Welcome to Archetypes, a podcast by Future Commerce. I'm Kristen Vencel. Even with just a glance over the course of history, it's easy to see how important and powerful story has been throughout time. We humans thrive on story, whether we are the storytellers or the listeners. We feel connected to others through story. Archetypes is an exploration of the roles that we play in the story of a brand and features interviews with people who create the brands and experiences that are changing our world. It's an investigation into how we as people take part in these stories, ultimately making them our own. No matter who you are in this world, you engage in commerce. Commerce touches every living soul. We all have a role to play. We all have a story to tell. Archetypes is the story of commerce. The Lover: a seeker of beauty and grace, full of conviction. The Lover is brave enough to go against convention, driven by the need to connect with another. They are positive and courageous, bringing out the best in others and seeing love as a universal force. The Lover creates meaning, passion, and connection. Frownies has been building this way for over 130 years, and the Fifth-Generation Female Owner and Face of Frownies, Helen Morrison, gifted us with some incredible insight into what it looks like to be a Lover in the world of commerce. Welcome to this episode of Archetypes. When you took the Archetypes quiz and your result was The Lover, what was your initial reaction?

Helen: [00:02:22] I wasn't surprised. {laughter} When I read about the different Archetypes beforehand, I had a feeling that that's what it would come out to be. So I love doing those kinds of quizzes and things and I feel like I know myself pretty well. So usually when I read over the overview of things beforehand, I'm like, "Oh, I bet that's the one." {laughter}

Kristen: [00:02:44] So how has your initial reaction deepened in your perspective since then? Have you thought about it even further and what kind of insights maybe have you come up with since then?

Helen: [00:02:54] Yeah, I mean, when I think about it, especially in application to Frownies and just look back at everything that I've done the past couple of years as I've been on board and even everything that I fight for as we grow and what's really valuable and important to me, I definitely see that all throughout. I feel like human connection to me is so important. And I really never saw myself being involved in business or caring about business because I just didn't see business as personal connection really. But of course, successful business requires personal connection, if you think it. The idea that people want to buy things from people they like, know, and trust, right?

Kristen: [00:03:41] Right.

Helen: [00:03:42] And for me, [00:03:43] jumping on board and getting involved with Frownies, what I wanted to do most of all was just connect with people. And that's my job. I'm running all of our social media and the reason that I love this version of business so much is because it is so connected. It's all about just creating those relationships and reaching out to people and caring for people and supporting people on this skincare journey. [00:04:09] So I definitely, when I read through some of the information, I thought this describes exactly what matters most to me in life and in my role at Frownies.

Kristen: [00:04:24] I love that. And that is very clear to me when I look at Frownies. When I first started using Frownies and quickly became a lover of the products, I saw immediately how connected the brand is with its customers, and I saw immediately how you were a big part of that. So it doesn't surprise me at all. I thought of Frownies as The Lover right away, and I definitely suspected that that's what your result would be, because I see what you're saying. It does come through in the way that you interact with customers and in the way even when I first became a customer, I felt immediately connected to the brand, and I think that is really something unique, at least in my experience. So I see what you're saying, that it really comes through. I think you're very congruent in that.

Helen: [00:05:13] That makes me so happy when people say that. It's one thing for me to feel like, "Oh yeah, I really care about the customers." And I'm trying to do that like, connection piece. But it's I think the big test is hearing from people saying that that's what they felt and that's what they experienced because that is what I want. But sometimes you're not always aware of how it's received by other people. But I think we do get a lot of feedback now at this point, several years in from people just raving about that connection that they feel. And any time I bring anyone on to my team, it's like that's the most important thing to me is just do you have that ability to touch people that you don't know through whether it's written or verbal communication in messages or whatever. I just want people to feel cared for and loved and supported and really, who cares about wrinkles and skin care? It's, you know, all of that to me, it's just fun. It's just icing on the cake. It's really more I want people to feel loved and connected to each other. And that's to me, the meaning of life is the connections that we have with each other and that we are all connected. And if we're connecting over Frownies and skincare, great, like whatever it is, but I want people to always leave interactions with me feeling cared for and feeling encouraged. And so it makes me happy that people would come and just experience a little bit of the brand online and feel that because that's what I that's my goal, really.

Kristen: [00:06:56] So The Lover creates meaning, passion, and connection. And that is something I see when I go to Instagram and see the Frownies account. I'm seeing customers responding to customers as well. I love seeing that. When you see other customers responding like, "Oh yeah, try this. This helped me." So you're answering too, which your team is so good at responding, but I love seeing that there are actually customers responding and helping customers, and that just builds and fosters community even more. And it does a lot of really what is so cool for you guys, for your team, you're seeing your job being done by the people who are enjoying your products, which is so cool.

Helen: [00:07:38] We've been so fortunate. Honestly and this is my thing, I feel like when it comes to brands, I obviously use other products for lots of different things. And there's a brand in particular, even I love their products, love them, and I share about them all the time on my personal, constantly it's what I use. And I've never felt connected to them at all. I love their products. But as far as a brand or loyalty to them, I have none. {laughter} And it's because I've shared so many times and I know I've referred so many people to buy from them. And occasionally if I share in my story, they've maybe reshared what I've shared on my story once or twice over the years. And they just write back like, "Thank you. So glad you love our products." And I'm like, okay, that's fine. But now that I am so connected to our customers and our community, I know people's names. They might not... And the funny thing is they might not know. But I know them too. I watch their stories and I know about the things that they've got going on and what workouts they do in the morning and whatever because I see it and they're tagging us. And because I've connected with them, I now feel this sense that when I'm sharing about another brand and all I get is an emoji back, I'm sort of like, meh, was that a computer? Is there a person behind this who really cares? And I just think it would speak volumes to me if just once they would jump on the voice message and just say, "You share about us all the time. You do not know how much we appreciate it. It means so much to us." That's it. Like one time. And for me, I just think that because especially honestly, I like to talk to people because that feels more connected. Just typing out replies to comments on your phone does not feel like human connection, but to be able to actually talk to someone and hear their voice and they hear your voice, it feels like you have more of a relationship. And so for me, doing that and creating that connection, I feel like now, and customers have told me this, it's not even just that they love Frownies. They're like, "Yeah, I love your products, but I love you. I love that you care about me and that you take time to talk to me." And I feel the same. I'm glad you're using Frownies, but I'm enjoying seeing you get excited about your skin getting better and you're getting these great results and that makes me so happy. And I think that [00:10:23] when you build that human connection and you create a culture of we connect with each other, we take care of each other, we support each other, then yes, the customers are doing that in the comments together for each other, [00:10:36] which only makes the Frownies and we kind of have #FrowniesFam or whatever. This idea of we are a family and we are supporting each other. And I think that goes beyond skincare. Of course, we all love wearing Frownies and we're all into the skincare thing, but really it's that community and that feeling of somebody cheering you on that keeps you going. We all need that accountability and that support to stay consistent with things that are important to us. And yeah, I value that so much. And I think that once you create that, that's what you expect when new people come in and they feel that and they give back to that too. So everybody's really contributing to what makes Frownies such a great place to be.

Kristen: [00:11:28] I think one thing that I really appreciate about The Lover archetype in general, and like I've said, I've definitely seen this with Frownies and with you, in a world that's often cynical, we say that Lovers see the opportunities where others see problems, and The Lover creates a positive vision of what can be bringing out the best in people. And you have an opportunity to do that a lot. {laughter} I see you fielding so much on social media, and social media can be really great. And also there's a culture on it that can sometimes be extra critical. And I love how your approach really is this. Seeing the opportunities where others see problems and then creating a positive vision. So just tell me more about that, your philosophy behind that. I think the effectiveness is really clear.

Helen: [00:12:47] So to your point, there is a lot of cynicism, particularly towards marketing, right? And I feel it too. I was just watching a show with my husband the other night and this weight loss product pops up and they're like, "Lose 18 pounds in six days." And then in the fine print at the bottom of the screen, it says, "Average weight loss is 6 pounds over six months," or something, and I was like, that is ridiculous. And [00:13:16] I think you see that or you see people, you see before and after photos or ads for people with skincare. And it's like, oh, come on, you did not achieve that with moisturizer, and I get that. And because I feel that way, I have leaned so far in the opposite direction when it comes to our content and what comes to the honesty surrounding Frownies. Now, I'll tell you, you can't take this approach if you don't have a good product. Frownies is a great product. It's been around for over 130 years. It's the exact same product. I mean, now we have other skincare and things as well, but the hero product, the facial patches themselves that have been around for over a century, they work and I don't need to make any false claims around that or puff up the possibilities of what you can expect because you're going to buy them and you're going to see and I have no problem with putting risking whether or not you're going to like it.  [00:14:23]Now, obviously, there's not any one product that everyone will love. And I tell you, here's all the reasons why you won't like this, right? I'm kind of setting the expectation of like, okay, they're kind of difficult to put on. They might smell funny. It takes some time to get used to it. It might be a little uncomfortable at first. It's going to take a long time. You have to be extremely consistent. If you're not willing to be consistent, you will not see results. I'm laying this groundwork, almost explaining to them all the reasons why they're not going to want to like this. But then they see the pictures from customers, which we do not pay anyone for testimonies or results. We don't pay for collabs. We don't pay influencers to talk about the product. It's just relationships we've built with customers and customers who are so excited that they want to share. And so it's all totally authentic. It's totally real, it's just screenshots. It's like, this is it. There is no doctoring this. We're not trying to make it look pretty. We're not trying to make it perfectly branded. We [00:15:24] just want to say, "Here is this product and this is what it can do. And before you buy it, I'm going to set the expectation of all the weird things about it, of all the reasons you might not like it, so that when you start using it, your expectation is realistic and then you see the results and you're blown out of the water and it's like, "Wow, this is worth it.'" [00:15:43] That's kind of my approach. And like I said, you actually have to have a really good product if you're going to take this approach. And I think people find that refreshing because in today's world, there are just too many quick fixes, and then people are disappointed. And I think most people would rather hear, "Listen, you're going to have to be consistent for 2 to 6 months, and then you're going to be blown away." And they're like, "Well, thank you for telling me the truth because don't insult my intelligence by making me think that there's this miracle in a box that happens overnight."

Kristen: [00:16:16] Yeah, I think you're right. That is very refreshing. I know, personally speaking, I am looking to be refreshed constantly in the world around me, so I definitely appreciate that. I knew what to expect when I started them. And I think that I'm a loyal person, but it does take a lot for me to really be like, "Yes, I'm always going to forever use these products," for any brand and Frownies is one of those for me. I am a performing artist, so having the ability to age gracefully and be confident and be myself through how these products have helped me is literally life-changing for me. When you look at other brands, what other brands do you think stand out to you as The Lover as well in any realm of commerce?

Helen: [00:17:04] This isn't exactly a brand. I mean, it kind of is not a product-based brand. But do you know who Gary V is? He stands out to me as The Lover. And I know he's got a whole marketing world and he's got businesses which so I guess he's got a lot of brands underneath him. But actually, a lot of my approach, when I found him and started kind of following him a couple of years ago, I was like, "Oh, he's describing exactly what we do. This is exactly, this is my thing." And I think I really appreciate his emphasis on loving people and kindness. So he's definitely somebody that I think of that way. Have you heard of Huda Beauty?

Kristen: [00:17:50] No. I haven't.

Helen: [00:17:51] It's a pretty huge makeup brand, but Huda is the woman who founded it and she is very, very involved on social and connecting on social for having so many followers and being as big as she is. I think for Frownies, I am the brand. I am heavily in there. Truthfully, with Frownies we interact with you as human to human and not business to consumer. Even though we are a B to C brand. It's really I feel like we're personal.

Kristen: [00:18:24] Yeah, that's so cool. And it is such a vulnerable category. So [00:18:28] the way you handle that delicately is, I think, part of why people feel so connected to you. That is really a special gift to have as a brand to be able to do that with something that is so vulnerable. The whole time I've been talking to you, I've been thinking about how this through line of connection, connection, connection is really what is such an imperative part of The Lover archetype and why we need The Lover archetype in the landscape of commerce and in our lives. [00:18:58] And so I really appreciate the time that you've taken to share with us. And I love the legacy of your company, and I love just the storied past that you have that you're bringing it right into the future. I just absolutely love that. And I think that you're doing such a great job. So I appreciate you taking the time with us today to share your heart. And it definitely comes through in everything I see coming through Frownies.

Helen: [00:19:20] Thank you. That's the goal.

Kristen: [00:19:24] Thank you for joining us for this season of Archetypes. What an incredible season we have had. There is even more to discover about The Lover and more in the Archetypes Journal. Get your copy at ArchetypesJournal.com. Archetypes is brought to you by Future Commerce. Discover the world of Archetypes, take the Archetypes quiz, and get the Archetypes Journal at ArchetypesJournal.com. You can find more episodes of this podcast and all Future Commerce properties at FutureCommerce.com.